It’s a bird, it’s a plane, it’s a conspiracy theory!
Last night, I had a bit of an argument on Twitter with some people over the Swine Flu virus that spread from Mexico. Some people saying, there is no such thing, and it is just a government conspiracy theory. Sort of a biological war. Then others say that it is a natural recurring order, and it would have happened eventually.
Then, you got people like me, that have too much faith in One God, and I kept repeatedly saying that it is God’s wrath on the people. Oh boy. I got the fanatics attacking me big time.
Why is it that when someone mentions God, then they start blaming you for the following:
1. You are too religious and you don’t believe in science at all.
2. You actually believe in higher power controlling us?
3. You actually telling us that things happen just like that with no valid scientific cause?
Blah blah!
Some people wanted me to discuss why I don’t believe in science. I then asked my self, what? Why do I have a Bachelors of Science? lol Why did I study science all my life? And yes, I was studying Biology before someone played with my mind and told me to study computers. I am more of a believer of science and studying science than anyone else. I love science. I believe that people who study science are only trying to explain everything that God has done. Humans are using:
1. Their brains to think of a new solution. Every day someone out there is discovering something or solving something.
2. Nature to find an explanation for everything.
3. History and natural order to come up with new patterns to explain a new or old scientific trend.
And so much more.
Us humans are explaining something that someone of a higher power is throwing at us. The higher power gave us the most valuable weapon on earth, our brains! God is challenging us to find an answer to everything. Where is the limit to our knowledge? Who knows. However, nothing happens for no reason. We didn’t exist or just happen to evolve from something just like that. Someone is controlling it, and keeps throwing challenges at us.
Yes, I am a Muslim. Yes, I have a bull headed religious view of things. Yes, I believe in the story of Adam and Eve. And yes, I don’t eat anything that comes from a pig, because like Judaism, it is forbidden for us as well. Why? Simple. Think about it. God told Adam and Eve to not eat from the forbidden fruit. They did anyways because the devil played with their minds, and they were sent down to earth.
Then, God told people to not eat anything from the pig, it is forbidden. People do or do not anyways. That’s just the way life is. What did God really tell us to do on this earth? Did he forbid everything? Did God continuously make our lives miserable by natural disorder? No. God throws a challenge at us all the time, but we have our weapons, ours brains, to find a solution. Hence, that’s when science, or the study of finding a solution to God’s challenges to us, is all about.
Think about it that way. If not, by all means, don’t start a religious debate with me. We will never come to a solution or to an agreement. I am viewing things in a logical religious/scientific view point. I like to tie everything together and not separate anything into categories. Everything is connected if we like it or not.
Blah Blah, Categorize this!, Random Thoughts, Religion, They said what?, Whatever!
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The problem I have with your God’s wrath on the people theory is that it’s indiscriminate. I’m going to keee it fairly general as I’m christian and can’t be arsed with a nitty-gritty debate. But basically yes, teh initial strain came from pigs but now it’s being transmitted person to person, so American and British muslims are at no advantage to avoid it.
@Nithya
I never said that people will be safe from it, and others won’t. I said it was a challenge and people will come up with a solution. That’s what science is for. They find a solution to the challenges. I don’t eat meat at all. lol So I don’t care!
I like your views on things
@Joe
Thanks Joe!
You may be right that the goal of science is to understand God. I don’t think you are, but you might be. In any case, though, if a scientific hypothesis begins with the assumption that God exists and is the cause of everything, then it’s not science.
Picking a conclusion then choosing evidence that supports it is pretty much the opposite of science.
With regards to swine flu, you have a hypothesis that it is caused by God’s wrath, because we eat pigs. So you’d expect that God would make the connection between pigs and swine flu obvious, right? But in fact, it’s not actually caused by eating pigs. It really has very little to do with pigs other than the media throwing up pictures of them all the time. It seems a bit silly, then, for God to throw a tantrum and start harming random people. Even if you assume God exists, saying swine flu is some sort of punishment makes little since, in my humble opinion.
We will probably never agree on some of the more fundamental assumptions here, but you’ve made me think, and I hope I have made you think too, and that’s awesome.
@Phronk
Listening to other views, and challenging others is a great first step to everything!
I agree – bacon is delicious.
Wait — what was the question?
/mmmmm – forbidden beast meat …
@Canucklehead
Ha Ha. Not funny.
Why is it that when someone mentions God, then they start blaming you for the following:
1. You are too religious and you dont believe in science at all.
2. You actually believe in higher power controlling us?
3. You actually telling us that things happen just like that with no valid scientific cause?
Because they are right. Faith is stupid. You can speculate philosophically about such things but claiming that this or that other interpretation of God, life, the universe and everything is the correct one is outmost arrogant and pathetic.
People will, logically, spit at you if you dare to insult them with such arrogance. Much less if you claim that a “normal” pandemic is “God’s wrath”.
You really have no idea of what’s God’s wrath. Even if it exists at all (maybe such hypothetical hyper-merciful being has not rage at all or won’t let it out to harm others).
Yah: your viewpoint is really insulting for the rest. Now I see you are a fanatic arrogant doomsayer.
@Maju
And you bothered to come on my site and comment about it? Is insulting me going to convince others with your bull headed view about things? I said I didn’t want to argue about this. However, you decided not to just argue, but to insult. Who is the bigger person here?
If my view point is so insulting to the rest, then your comment is really insulting to the person who bothered to reply to you and didn’t block you yet. Which I won’t. You have been a good visitor all along. However, spare me and the rest that think like me your insults and your dissatisfaction with others view point. My view point about certain things is mine, and I share it. If you cannot accept it, then you are not the type of person who will accept anyone else’s different view from your self. I am surprised you even have a view point about anything.
I will refrain from telling you off anymore or insulting you. You are not worth it anymore.
Hmm… It happens that I d not follow your blog directly but via the Palestine Blogs Aggregator. Yours is in fact kind of out in that agglomerate because it’s anything but compromised and political – which is what I am interested in.
But certainly I have no problem in putting the dots on the “i”s when and where needed, especially when people start talking about “God” like if it was the most obvious thing and like if they knew anything about it not read in some book or heard from some others (i.e. mere stories, tales for children and immature adults – with the difference that even children can take apart fact from fiction).
Is insulting me going to convince others with your bull headed view about things? I said I didn’t want to argue about this.
I didn’t read so far. You asked:
Why is it that when someone mentions God, then they start blaming you for the following:
1. You are too religious and you dont believe in science at all.
2. You actually believe in higher power controlling us?
3. You actually telling us that things happen just like that with no valid scientific cause?
And I replied to you, so you know why.
Because you said before: I kept repeatedly saying that it is Gods wrath on the people. And that is really annoying. What if somebody told you that you lost your job or that you are not married because “God” is angry at you for eating too much chocolate and being too lazy, or if he/she said that what the Palestinians are suffering is because of “God’s Wraith”? Maybe the Jews’ God (that other meanie God or version of the same nutty thing) or whatever – I do not care.
You’d feel insulted and angry, right? And with good reason. And you would reply irated. And with good reason.
If there is anything such as God, it is much greater and uncomprehensible than you or any other person can concieve. So stop blasphemating by attributing to God actions or emotions that you really have no idea about.
@Maju
Yes, I will keep believing that God has something to do with everything. That’s my view point, and I am sticking to it. Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they like. That’s just the way life is. If you cannot accept it or agree with it, than it is your choice. We all have choices and beliefs. If you think that over a billion people with the same religion, Muslims, are crazy lunatics who believe in One God that they think controls something in our lives, then that is your problem. I was raised this way. I was raised to believe things this way. I am sorry if that offends other people. I was just trying to explain how science and God actually kind of go hand in hand. If you don’t believe it, then it is your choice. I am not forcing you or any other. Just don’t attack me and expect me to accept it because you are right. I am not right. You are not right. No one is right. Happy? Is that what you want to hear?
Please, stop commenting. One more comment from you regarding this, and you will be denied anymore commenting. I don’t have the patience to continue this debate.
Here I was thinking Swine Flu was uncontroversial.
@Sapphire
Everything in life can be made into a controversy. That’s just the way us humans think of everything. We just don’t have the ability to accept things the way they are, or to reason at all!
well said Mona
It seems that Atheists are trying hard to use science to defy religion to find a way to escape responsibilities. They are just semi-educated following other semi-educated people.
@Canucklehead
LOL Eating pork does not give you swine flu.
Let me rephrase my thoughts for a second. How about this, acting stupid and saying stupid things, does in fact make you stupid. Is that logical?
You really think there is no god ?
it’s not something you read in books or hear from stories
it’s logic and common sense , watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aCbrGqhoBc&feature=channel
I hope it helps you.
I think people from now on, who want to comment regarding this issues, to respect other people, especially me. Stop making fun of something that is serious and think for a minute instead of taking everything as a joke or as an offense. You guys have to realize that this is a personal blog. Personal blog. Personal blog!
It’s my personal opinions which I am willing to discuss with others who are respectable. If you are not willing to respect it, then I have no reason to respect yours at all.
I am not this huge fan based website, where whatever I say is written on stone and is the absolute and final word. So stop thinking it is. It is not!
Thank you Mona for a wonderful post it’s good to see your religious side
“Why is it that when someone mentions God, then they start blaming you for the following:
1. You are too religious and you dont believe in science at all.
2. You actually believe in higher power controlling us?
3. You actually telling us that things happen just like that with no valid scientific cause?”
Because such people hate seeing other people like us believing in god and religion. After all they see religion as an obstacle in doing whtever they like with no respect to morals and people
MAJU! You are spam now, so don’t bother ever commenting again! You went over bored with insulting all religions. If you believe that our faith is like a 5 year old’s imagination, then go get a life. Go reevaluate your life and leave us alone. You completely went out of line and offended us!
I’m glad you are sticking to your faith. I think that faith can be a great source of strength and you should never give it up.
I realize that you can have faith _and_ skepticism to learn from science as well. It’s not an either/or debate. Those w/o faith are missing a source of strength. This is coming from someone who lost one faith and gained another. I feel stronger for it.
I can’t say that it’s G-ds will, who knows?
I will say that certain philosophies and mystical writings say that humanity was ceated with free will and we have the ability to chose between good and evil. These writings go on to say that because we live in the physical world, we are only seeing glimpses of G-d and should we elevate ourselves by choosing good we would be able to see more clearly the justice in this world.
The most important thing is to realize that G-d emunates in everything including the inanimate, religous and secular, and the pure and impure.
anybody who doesn’t at least thank a higher power gave them two eyes, two ears, two legs, and two arms, and not some crazy disease, and not some crazy world where stars fall from the sky every second and diseases run rampant, is fucking stupid
There there now people.. No need to get angry.. Just take things easy, and it is just an opinion and some thoughts.
there is nothing angry about what i propose. it is a matter of fact that the tiniest of tiniest of single celled organisms have no precursor to their evolution….al-basra created the turbines, the motors, the rotors, and yes the nucleus of each individual cell. science is good to a point. evolution needed a segue to. but when a gift is given to someone by the painter of the stars, the originator of cells, the fire in our eyes, how could one deny the selfless being that has created us in his image? i know i was being rash earlier, but when a gift is denied it can either be a benevolent act, an act of humility, but when the giver is made happy by giving the gift without receiving, like god unto the universe that he so cherishes, then peace is made on both accounts. it is the perfect math equation. give receive, give and you are at peace.
This is a post worth reading.
Why do diseases keep finding stronger shapes?
Why, While Man keeps finding drugs and cures for other diseases?
It’s like good and evil…it’s a cycle of life…tests we go through…
Believing in Allah is a bliss, I think.
Yet, In my humble opinion, people who choose not to believe in god do so because following any religion puts some kind or another of restraints to human free will…and some people find it easier to deny a higher power so they wouldn’t have to give up theirs!
Brian, I admire how you see faith.
And last, faith and god can be seen, touched and felt by the HEART…and that’s when the mind offers a million proof.
Science is in the Quran. God literally tells us to think and use our minds to understand and learn.
also.. if anyone wants to know why we should not eat pig.. look up how a pigs digestive system handles uric acid.
I enjoy dropping by your blog each day. I find your honesty refreshing. I was intrigued by your discussion on sickness, God’s wrath, and medicine.
From my perspective as a follower of Christ we see God’s original design for us humans and the world in the Garden with Adam & Eve before the Fall. As I understand it the Garden of Eden was the world right side up and uncorrupted by sin. As a result of the Fall we live in a corrupted world. An upside down world and backwards world. Not how God desires us to live for eternity and God has a plan for making things right again. So from this perspective everything here on earth has been effected by sin. Our bodies, our relationships, nature, weather, animals, etc. have all been infected in some degree by the Fall, by human sin. To me within this context it is not hard for me to accept the fact that sin and judgment are ultimately behind all corruption and sickness including flu viruses.
I would say that anytime sin, corruption, or sickness is reversed and something is made right the work of God is being displayed. God has given us brains so we can use them to fight against sin, corruption, and sickness. To me it is part of the mercy and grace of God. Medicine to me is a glimpse of the mercy and grace of God.
To me these small battles and reversals of sin & sickness are like a preview of that day coming when all wrongs will be made right. All evil and corruption will be destroyed.
To me God’s mercy and grace are displayed in it’s ultimate form by providing humans an ultimate solution to this sin problem. The wrath of God has been satisfied in Jesus. Jesus took the punishment for us all. I love this quote by John Piper:
“The wisdom of God has devised a way for the love of God to satisfy the wrath of God without compromising the justice of God.”
peace & grace,
brad
Thanks everyone for your open minded views of how science and religion are related.
I like the way you stated your case. While I may (or may not) agree with your religious views, you made a very good case of your belief system and how it all ties in with science. I won’t get into a religious debate with you; I am not qualified! But I will say that I admire your courage for “going against the grain” and not falling back on the “you’re wrong, I’m right” silly old argument!
Bravo!
Any time you bring up God, you are going to be met with resistance. Some people cannot hear an opposing thought or belief without becoming inflamed. It’s unfortunate, but true.
I’m not a religious person, but I am spiritual. I respect all religious beliefs, even pagan ones, and I think everyone’s beliefs have some validity. I won’t dispute that God (or whatever one calls the higher power in their mind) has a hand in everything. Including science. For the atheist or agnostic groups who bash faith or belief in a higher power, what makes you right? Nothing. You have no proof that God does not exist. Of course we have no solid proof that God DOES exist, but that is why it is called faith.
You don’t have to agree, but you do need to respect that everyone believes differently.
Kelly
@Kelly
I do respect other’s beliefs. However, they don’t respect mine because I disagree with them, or trying to see it from another view point than theirs.
Mona, so far this post impresses me the most—your confidence in your beliefs. It’s great to hear that there are people like you who definitely knows who God is.
I am a Christian and I always believe that God is here with me , living in me and all these things we are experiencing; sickness, strife,and most of human problems are caused by us, humans. God gives us choices—that’s our freedom . He created us so we can have freedom to enjoy His creations—we have the responsibility to take care of His creations and our bodies. When we don’t take care of them, there are consequences, and that’s the wrath. Wrath and punishment does not come from God, it entirely originates from us.
I don’t believe in science to do all the explanation in whatever is happening around the world —science is not exact; that’s why is science. Logic is not absolute.
But all I can say somebody believes in God, God exists—in his life. The person sees God in everything–his surroundings, his relationships and his inner being. In a man’s world, everything is “to see is to believe” , but in faith in a God, “it is to believe first then you will see.” God asks us to believe in Him first before He can act on your favor. Why would things work for you, if you don’t believe first?
There are so many things that science still cannot explain. It cannot even disprove yet the existence of God. There is more difficult to prove that God does not exist than proving God exists….so why make it difficult? Just have faith and believe and you will see.
P.S. Thanks for changing my URL.
@Mona
I’m sorry, Mona, I didn’t mean you, I meant the collective you…all those out there that bash or hate. Sorry!
Kelly
The response you receive depends on your audience — their perception of religion, its history, etc. What people don’t see is that God of other religion may not be the same as God/religion that Christians have come to known. Those living in Judeo-Christian cultures tend to analyze through their own experience of religion – where Christianity was used to shun and demonize scientists and Church & State are considered separate entities. Even today, Christians (generalization alert – at least there are factions that) tend to look down upon scientific research, evolution theory, etc. While the Atheists/Agnostics ridicule anyone mentioning the word God and consider the believer non-scientific & backward. Again, it’s due to their own history & ignorance of others.
The same way Islam is hijacked by some militants, Christianity was misused/hijacked by the Clergy (embedded with Kings) to their own benefit. At least the text of the former was never changed. So, it comes as no surprise we can’t step out of our framework to realize that, perhaps, “God” followed by others has different ideologies and history. Unlike Christianity, Islam never excluded science — actually it encouraged exploration and discoveries. While the western Church was condemning astronauts, the religious men in the East were among the first to make advancement in astronomy. The west was burning witches, the non Christian religious men in the East were mapping the human body.