Not something I wanted to know

Hi, Mona. Well, difficult to comment on this topic. I’m certainly not a very religious person, though I do recognize the existence of God, I am not drinking alcohol, and I believe in possibility of one partner in life.
It’s hard though to blame step mom for ‘not caring to convert’. I am Muslim. I converted recently, but I don’t believe that everyone should convert if they want to get married. Therefore, if she did not believe in Islam, it’s better that she did not convert. One thing though – you did not mention their father. Even if their mom did not convert, it’s his job to bring up the kids as Muslims.

Anyways, religion is always a difficult topic Hope you have fun in Canada

@Oksana
First of let me say congrats! I am thrilled that you have found the light of Islam.

Second, I know it was his responsibility to raise them as Muslims but it’s the step-mom (I think) who spends most of the time with the children so I can see why their actions have to do with the step-mom. However, the father knew what he was getting himself into. His faith in Islam was probably not strong enough to begin with. I wish him all the best though.

Btw, some people claim to convert to other religions just so they can follow their own desires and still believe they would go to heaven. They know Islam will not tolerate with such BS.

That is very sad, but I can’t say I haven’t seen it before. The father really does have to be strong in this case – he knows how important it is and should have made it a condition! But, as you say, perhaps he was not so strong to begin…
At least they didn’t try to do a ‘half-Christian, half-Muslim’ thing. Seriously – I know someone who does that… how on earth do you do that? I mean – at the very least, you have to define Jesus at some point!!! That annoys me. Even if I didn’t convert, my kids would have been raised one religion (Muslim) because I think that’s rather silly and not helpful to try to raise them in two. (kinda’ defeats the purpose)

Drinking alcohol is frowned upon by many devout Christians so if they are partying and boozing it up I suspect they are probably more secular than anything else. As for eating pork not all Christians like eating pork even though they are not forbidden by their religion to eat pork. I had a childhood friend who couldn’t stand the taste of pork it made her nauseous. I don’t think there is anything sad about somebody converting to another religion but hey that is just my humble opinion.

Right – the changing religion is not a bad thing in my opinion. In fact, because you are usually pretty positive about your husband (or should be!) and everything, it is recommended that even if you are thinking of converting that you don’t until perhaps a few years down the road. Changing religion is a VERY big deal. Not only is it your RELIGIOUS beliefs, but you are also breaking from you family. And we all know that marriage is the bringing together of families and you have to consider all reactions.
It IS very important to me that you bring up the kids in one religion and that this is decided BEFORE you marry. It’s hard to say after you are married that you don’t agree on that. There are many mixed-religious families out there and this is a major point that should be decided early on. And, you have to be able to explain it well (and kindly) to the side of the family who is not going to share the religion with their kids.
But, it’s not required for the women to covert (guys it’s another thing, but I have my own opinion on people who I feel give lip service… actually, I have a good example and bad). And, if she doesn’t believe it, then she shouldn’t just to do lip service. You should ONLY convert if you believe it. God knows!

well hey if that makes them happy thats what matters n who am i or any 1 else 2 judge them thats gods job n no1 else (no 1 should judge or say anything about 1s relgion)

I’m more curious about how this relates to your other post about “It only takes two mothers”, myself. This part, for instance:

The entire family is swept into the deal, and their say of the outcome of the entire wedding and married life involves them more then the two lovebirds.

Your cousins family didn’t object to him marrying an American woman who was a Christian? Why not? Or did they, and he ignored them?

In any case, I doubt very much that she had much influence of the kids, for two reasons. The first is that she is their step-mom. Having had numerous step-moms I can testify that kids don’t consider step-parents to be real parents, and it’s an unusual case where step-parents successfully win their spouse’s kids over. The second is that I don’t think that if she was a devout Christian in the traditional sense she would have married a Muslim. So, I’m guessing both husband and wife in this marriage are at the least secular and my-religion-is-between-me-and-God types, and possibly even agnostics.

All the above is speculation, of course

I’m happy for them if they married for love. I think Christian/Muslim and Arab/Western marriages must be the most difficult match there is.

@Craig
I think most would blame the father since it was his responsibility to raise the kids Muslims. There are many Muslim/Christian/Jewish marriages out there, but the main thing that is traditional within Muslim marriages is that the children are RAISED Muslim. Of course, that is pretty traditional for whatever religion, although I think in Judaism, the religion follows the mother, right?
Obviously, once the kids are older, they make their own life decisions. It’s not really to blame the mother in this case as that should really not make a difference. I think it sounds like that because she is the closest influence on the children, when it comes to that, but it’s the fathers responsibility – especially if he knows his wife is not Muslim (which, he should know! lol)
I don’t think that Christian/Muslim; Arab/Western marriages are more difficult than others, but I think, as with ANY marriage, it’s important to know yourself, your family and your husbands family. I find the my family (USA, Catholic) and my husband’s family (Palestinian- well, Jordanian (lol), Muslim) have more in common than any of my previous boyfriends and their families. We may be lucky and I can find many people who mirror my situation and many who don’t. But, I think it comes down to knowing yourself and your husband rather than a purely cultural thing. Culture plays a part, of course!, but you don’t marry a culture – you marry a person. And what you accept give to how your marriage will go.
lol – I always say that the worst culture shock I ever had was going from California to Virgina. I had almost none going to Jordan (seriously, you can find anything you want in most parts of the Middle East – it’s easier to adjust than Europe in many ways!) And, of course, minority groups in country always view their minority group very differently than they would view themselves when their the majority group. My husband was always in a ‘majority’ group group up, which allows for probably a more liberal stance than I notice others brought up in the US or other nations may have… But, that is another topic

@Craig

Of course, that is pretty traditional for whatever religion, although

Hmmm… as a Christian, I don’t think I would agree that’s the case. I suppose every family is different, but it’s not at all unusual in Christian families for the parents to be very religious, and the children not. And vice-versa!

I think in Judaism, the religion follows the mother, right?

That’s what I’ve heard. My father’s third wife was Jewish, but he didn’t convert when he married her. Nor did I, as one of the step-kids! My dad’s second wife was the only step mom I was ever at all close to, and she was Irish Catholic. Again, my dad didn’t convert and neither did I. My dad’s current wife is Roman catholic, and he finally converted to Catholicism when he married her, I think. He started going to Church too, which is something he rarely did in the past. Maybe if he’d started with that earlier, he wouldn’t have had to get married 5 or 6 times or whatever the count is these days.

I think it sounds like that because she is the closest influence on the children, when it comes to that, but it’s the fathers responsibility – especially if he knows his wife is not Muslim (which, he should know! lol)

I’m sure he did

At least he had the option of marrying a woman who wasn’t Muslim. Muslim women don’t get to make that choice.

I don’t think that Christian/Muslim; Arab/Western marriages are more difficult than others…

Oh, I do! I don’t want to get into too many personal stories, but I’ve looked into it a bit. It seems completely unmanageable, to me. And I say that having been married for 10+ years to a Chinese Buddhist who grew up in communist China! I admire people who can make that particular match work, but I don’t think I’d advise it for many.

but I think, as with ANY marriage, it’s important to know yourself, your family and your husbands family. I find the my family (USA, Catholic) and my husband’s family (Palestinian- well, Jordanian (lol), Muslim) have more in common than any of my previous boyfriends and their families.

Hmmm… that’s interesting. I didn’t have anything in common with my ex’s family… in fact, about 2/3 of them (and it’s a VERY large extended family) don’t even speak English. But I really liked her family a lot. Better than my own, in a lot of ways.

lol – I always say that the worst culture shock I ever had was going from California to Virgina. I had almost none going to Jordan (seriously, you can find anything you want in most parts of the Middle East – it’s easier to adjust than Europe in many ways!) And, of course, minority groups in country always view their minority group very differently than they would view themselves when their the majority group. My husband was always in a ‘majority’ group group up, which allows for probably a more liberal stance than I notice others brought up in the US or other nations may have… But, that is another topic

Interesting! Thanks for sharing that, I’ve been curious what things are like for couples in your situation

@Little P

Oops! I was replying to myself there, it seems

@Mona

I agree I don’t think a person should convert for frivolous reasons.

Converting is a serious issue. I thought about changing from Catholic to simply non-denominational but my mother said: “you’re Catholic until the day I die.” Oh well.

It is true, there are some non-practicing “Christians” and also devout ones. Depends on the heart of the person whether or not they truly accept the teachings of their faith. There are bad Christians just as there are bad Muslims. Religions is a difficult topic and one I get into many interesting issues with on the English Sabla forum based out of Oman. In the end God judges our hearts and we alone cannot imagine what such judgement is.

I agree with both Sapphire’s and Janet’s comments and your reply. Religion is a personal choice and should be treated as such. To convert to any religion is a serious undertaking and should NOT be taken lightly.

Yes the family back home might be sad but that is life and people change and they discover themselves.

It’s funny to read the comments of people who don’t necessarily associate with a religion or hold an “open” view.

Lemme explain.

I was born a Muslim and raised a muslim. However, during the process of growing up (and I am 27 atm btw), I strayed…. I strayed a lot. Went against everything that I was taught as a kid. Personal choice – right?!

In the last year, year and a half I have been finding myself. I look at the past and think – How on earth did I get there?

When you are raised as a Muslim, you are raised on simple principles to lead a sensible path. If you look at the situation from a Macro perspective from WAY up there, nothing seems to be wrong. However, it is only from way close up that you notice how important the basic principles of Islam help you in leading a decent sensible life. I’m not saying that you HAVE to be Muslim to lead a decent sensible life, but when you start as a Muslim, and then stray, more often than not you are going to a place that is very undesired.

And that is just a personal opinion based on experience.

Hi Mona, you seem well
Glad to see and hear that.

Regarding this topic:
It must be very hurting for a family if one of their members leaves their religious path. Depending on your ability to tolerate their seeking their own ways you are probably either just hurt, and feel rejected, or see it as treason (which I could imagine particularly when in a predominantly non Muslim region or country, where the need of feeling unity is greatest).

I probably could never convert to any other religion even if I felt drawn towards it very much simply for my family. My parents would be so hurt – I can feel the “you remain Catholic for as long as I live” part

One thing I find ironic though – I see a large proportion of the people getting furious over Muslims in the West converting to Christianity are the same that are all about converting non Muslims (dawa).
Now that I find very hypocritical – if you strive to make others convert, try to show a different path to them and praise God for them having deserted the path their family have prepared for them (and as a matter of fact most converts to Islam in Europe or the US tell their families were hurt – VERY) – how can you then judge people who do the same in the opposite direction?
Not at all saying you are one of those Mona.
The thought just came to mind because I happen to know quite a few people who applaud excessively for Christian reverts to Islam, yet fervently condemn Muslim converts to Christianity (and most of the time they’re not even their relatives, just someone in the community).

I am aware that it is always pleasant to welcome someone and always hurtful to lose someone. What I am most disturbed by I guess is if people actively strive to convert peers or love interests etc, yet do not grant the same right to seek new members/to show new potential members the path to what is truth for them to other people.

I guess I am calling for consistency in world view – if you find it hurtful people are leaving your religion, then do not actively attract other people to your own. tell them only if they ask.
If you chose to do dawa/missionarizing and thus are for freedom of choice and lifestyle, and freedom of “advertising” your faith – then grant this right to others too.

Just the other day I heard of Muslims doing dawa in a Catholic male monastery running a church directly. One of the priests is good friends with my Mom and sister (he’s from the Middle East), they met through charity I think – he told ‘em laughingly. Now to walk into a MONASTERY with people who dedicated their whole lives to religion, and try to make them convert, THAT is audacity in my opinion. I wonder how many Muslims would react if Catholic priests went straight into a mosque and tried to get people away from Islam? I fear some would not react with a smile like these priests did.
What do you guys think?