Comments on: Analysis: It is much harder to get rid of her http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/ Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:30:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joe http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47196 Joe Mon, 07 Sep 2009 01:32:55 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47196 @Abdullah: I dont think doomsday is near----in my experience it is already here in terms of relationships. Virtually every couple or man or woman i get to know WELL is unhappy in some aspect or most aspects of the relationships, and seem unable to move forward. The bright side of things is that there is nowhere to go but forward, so, in my world view, things are actually looking quite good. I am a firm, but firm believer in honesty, communication on BOTH sides, from the beginning. While this can lead to a lot of bruised egos, it is a lot better that that happen than live in boredom, misery or fear. @Abdullah:

I dont think doomsday is near—-in my experience it is already here in terms of relationships. Virtually every couple or man or woman i get to know WELL is unhappy in some aspect or most aspects of the relationships, and seem unable to move forward. The bright side of things is that there is nowhere to go but forward, so, in my world view, things are actually looking quite good. I am a firm, but firm believer in honesty, communication on BOTH sides, from the beginning. While this can lead to a lot of bruised egos, it is a lot better that that happen than live in boredom, misery or fear.

]]> By: Abdullah http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47175 Abdullah Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:25:44 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47175 <blockquote cite="#commentbody-47173"> <strong><a href="#comment-47173" rel="nofollow">Joe</a> :</strong> , which benefits no one except the publishers and authors of self-help books focused on relationship crises. </blockquote> <a href="#comment-47173" rel="nofollow">@Joe</a> Are those books of any help? The way you are saying things are....it sounds a lot like the dooms day is near! It's dull and gloomy. I better start to collect those books on relationship crisis....and probably even go for a head start so that I know how to handle one when I'm in a relationship :grin:

Joe :

, which benefits no one except the publishers and authors of self-help books focused on relationship crises.

@Joe

Are those books of any help? The way you are saying things are….it sounds a lot like the dooms day is near! It’s dull and gloomy. I better start to collect those books on relationship crisis….and probably even go for a head start so that I know how to handle one when I’m in a relationship :grin:

]]> By: Joe http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47173 Joe Sun, 06 Sep 2009 12:12:10 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47173 @Ahmed Nasri: I agree with the "deep-seated frustration" comment, but in my experience, while that feeling is present, it is not dominant. It seems that the fear/unease towards educated, independent, and confident women goes hand-in-hand with frustration. This is a bit off topic, but I personally believe that if sexual issues between men and women could ever be resolved, we wouldnt see 20% of the wars and strife in the world. When men get insecure, we do fucked up things, sometimes as innocent as buying bigger pickup trucks and more expensive cars and sometimes not so innocent things as in starting wars and bombing neighbours. We tend to flee from our insecurities rather than face them, and many women aid and abet this unhealthy behavior by their silence and acquiesence, and their failure to challenge themselves to challenge us to COMMUNICATE openly about mutual needs and desires. And, all too often, when men do open up to their female friends or partners, they are at a minimum not supported in what for the men is a very vulnerable place, and at worst ridiculed or discarded by the women for not being "strong" or "manly". It's a Catch-22 situation at times, and ties into your comment about the frustration. It is definitely there. @Abdullah: Absolutely....no one side is victim or perpetrator...both sexes are involved. I have been amazed though at the role many (not all) mothers play in creating the controlling, insecure monsters that their sons become through treating the sons like little kings, special treatment, dependent on the mother, etc. Granted, some of this is done to please the husband, but their is a controlling/manipulative element involved as well, I feel, on the part of the mothers. We are all involved in one way or another in continuing this mess, which benefits no one except the publishers and authors of self-help books focused on relationship crises. :grin: I think we all need to change our behavior one person and one partner at a time and try to evolve all those fears, cultural conditionings, insecurites in as healthy and balanced a way as possible. Joe @Ahmed Nasri:

I agree with the “deep-seated frustration” comment, but in my experience, while that feeling is present, it is not dominant. It seems that the fear/unease towards educated, independent, and confident women goes hand-in-hand with frustration.

This is a bit off topic, but I personally believe that if sexual issues between men and women could ever be resolved, we wouldnt see 20% of the wars and strife in the world. When men get insecure, we do fucked up things, sometimes as innocent as buying bigger pickup trucks and more expensive cars and sometimes not so innocent things as in starting wars and bombing neighbours. We tend to flee from our insecurities rather than face them, and many women aid and abet this unhealthy behavior by their silence and acquiesence, and their failure to challenge themselves to challenge us to COMMUNICATE openly about mutual needs and desires. And, all too often, when men do open up to their female friends or partners, they are at a minimum not supported in what for the men is a very vulnerable place, and at worst ridiculed or discarded by the women for not being “strong” or “manly”. It’s a Catch-22 situation at times, and ties into your comment about the frustration. It is definitely there.

@Abdullah:

Absolutely….no one side is victim or perpetrator…both sexes are involved. I have been amazed though at the role many (not all) mothers play in creating the controlling, insecure monsters that their sons become through treating the sons like little kings, special treatment, dependent on the mother, etc. Granted, some of this is done to please the husband, but their is a controlling/manipulative element involved as well, I feel, on the part of the mothers.
We are all involved in one way or another in continuing this mess, which benefits no one except the publishers and authors of self-help books focused on relationship crises.
:grin:

I think we all need to change our behavior one person and one partner at a time and try to evolve all those fears, cultural conditionings, insecurites in as healthy and balanced a way as possible.

Joe

]]> By: Abdullah http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47134 Abdullah Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:07:10 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47134 <a href="#comment-47125" rel="nofollow">@Joe</a> <blockquote cite="#commentbody-47125"> <strong><a href="#comment-47125" rel="nofollow">Joe</a> :</strong> To finish up, i think the failure of women, mothers, grandmothers, wifes, single women, etc to express their needs and desires and to take RESPONSIBILITY for them contributes greatly to the problem… </blockquote> I think that's part of the problem. Men are responsible to a great extent for continuing and energizing the problem(remember its a male dominated society)... @Joe

Joe :

To finish up, i think the failure of women, mothers, grandmothers, wifes, single women, etc to express their needs and desires and to take RESPONSIBILITY for them contributes greatly to the problem…

I think that’s part of the problem. Men are responsible to a great extent for continuing and energizing the problem(remember its a male dominated society)…

]]> By: Ahmed Masri http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47127 Ahmed Masri Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:12:05 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47127 <blockquote cite="#commentbody-47125"> <strong><a href="#comment-47125" rel="nofollow">Joe</a> :</strong> To finish up, i think the failure of women, mothers, grandmothers, wifes, single women, etc to express their needs and desires and to take RESPONSIBILITY for them contributes greatly to the problem… </blockquote> Love that part. Very true.

Joe :
To finish up, i think the failure of women, mothers, grandmothers, wifes, single women, etc to express their needs and desires and to take RESPONSIBILITY for them contributes greatly to the problem…

Love that part. Very true.

]]> By: Ahmed Masri http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47126 Ahmed Masri Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:08:06 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47126 <a href="#comment-47125" rel="nofollow">@Joe</a> Beautifully articulated! I completely agree if only for one slight issue... in your post, you make it sound more like our need for naive, controllable women was one of weakness or perhaps 'because we don't know any better"'(like you said, from our upbringing).. but I think a bigger part of it is our need for these women is one of deep seated frustration towards the alternative. I hope that was clear... @Joe

Beautifully articulated! I completely agree if only for one slight issue… in your post, you make it sound more like our need for naive, controllable women was one of weakness or perhaps ‘because we don’t know any better”‘(like you said, from our upbringing).. but I think a bigger part of it is our need for these women is one of deep seated frustration towards the alternative.

I hope that was clear…

]]> By: Joe http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47125 Joe Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:52:11 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47125 nice blog....I just bumped into it in cyberspace...I would like to add my two cents here.... I think that the attitude described by the Arab man in your post is fairly common, but rarely articulated, not just in Arab men, but in men in general. Many, many men live in some state of fear, insecurity, or inadequacy, sometimes bordering on terror with regards to women in general or their partner in particular. Very, very, very few men will admit to any of this. What Ahmed Masri touched on above is quite true: we are afraid of being emasculated by women. We are way more sensitive to criticism than we will ever let on, and are eager/desperate to create and control a situation where we make the decisions, lest we be triggered into facing some of these above-mentioned fears. One way of doing this is to seek out someone who is in one way or another dependent on us: uneducated, inexperienced, innocent or naive, who has fewer options to rebel or assert herself. This serves the male's purpose in that he is unlikely to be challenged in his fears of inadequacies, and serves the woman's purpose as well, as she becomes yet another "victim"....she falls into a subordinate role where little is demanded of her, tough decisions are left unfaced, and she can put whatever blame she feels off on her husband, who controls her and the decision-making process in the relationship. I think you might see more of this in Arab men than in men of some other cultures because from what i have seen, Arabs are among the most highly sexual people out there, but, interestingly enough, among the most repressed. Some of this i imagine is from the traditions and culture, and some of it is from the influence of both Christianity and Islam, but it is crazy and disheartening to see a lot of people struggling against their very nature. Obviously, there is a boatload of sexual repression going on in the States, Canada, Europe, etc, but there are, to some degree at least, more acceptable outlets for the frustration, and at least some conversations about the subject, e.g. your blog. To finish up, i think the failure of women, mothers, grandmothers, wifes, single women, etc to express their needs and desires and to take RESPONSIBILITY for them contributes greatly to the problem....men are being raised, often principally by their mothers, to behave exactly the way they do..momma's boys, lacking confidence, security, and to afraid to seek out the truth about what their women really want. The problem seems to go back to the Creation, we seem to be imprinted with these roles, and find it hard to snap out of them..so they get passed on generation to generation.... It's time for a change...Kudos to you rebellious Arab girl, for shedding some light on the situation and starting a conversation. We need more rebellion, and more questioning, not less, and not just among Arabs, but among all humans. nice blog….I just bumped into it in cyberspace…I would like to add my two cents here…. I think that the attitude described by the Arab man in your post is fairly common, but rarely articulated, not just in Arab men, but in men in general. Many, many men live in some state of fear, insecurity, or inadequacy, sometimes bordering on terror with regards to women in general or their partner in particular. Very, very, very few men will admit to any of this. What Ahmed Masri touched on above is quite true: we are afraid of being emasculated by women. We are way more sensitive to criticism than we will ever let on, and are eager/desperate to create and control a situation where we make the decisions, lest we be triggered into facing some of these above-mentioned fears.
One way of doing this is to seek out someone who is in one way or another dependent on us: uneducated, inexperienced, innocent or naive, who has fewer options to rebel or assert herself. This serves the male’s purpose in that he is unlikely to be challenged in his fears of inadequacies, and serves the woman’s purpose as well, as she becomes yet another “victim”….she falls into a subordinate role where little is demanded of her, tough decisions are left unfaced, and she can put whatever blame she feels off on her husband, who controls her and the decision-making process in the relationship.
I think you might see more of this in Arab men than in men of some other cultures because from what i have seen, Arabs are among the most highly sexual people out there, but, interestingly enough, among the most repressed. Some of this i imagine is from the traditions and culture, and some of it is from the influence of both Christianity and Islam, but it is crazy and disheartening to see a lot of people struggling against their very nature. Obviously, there is a boatload of sexual repression going on in the States, Canada, Europe, etc, but there are, to some degree at least, more acceptable outlets for the frustration, and at least some conversations about the subject, e.g. your blog.
To finish up, i think the failure of women, mothers, grandmothers, wifes, single women, etc to express their needs and desires and to take RESPONSIBILITY for them contributes greatly to the problem….men are being raised, often principally by their mothers, to behave exactly the way they do..momma’s boys, lacking confidence, security, and to afraid to seek out the truth about what their women really want. The problem seems to go back to the Creation, we seem to be imprinted with these roles, and find it hard to snap out of them..so they get passed on generation to generation….

It’s time for a change…Kudos to you rebellious Arab girl, for shedding some light on the situation and starting a conversation. We need more rebellion, and more questioning, not less, and not just among Arabs, but among all humans.

]]> By: Abdullah http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47121 Abdullah Sat, 05 Sep 2009 04:28:34 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47121 <a href="#comment-47116" rel="nofollow">@Zaina</a> hehe....you've got a funny mom! But you have got only 1 kid(so far!)....there isn't much scope for trial and error! @Zaina
hehe….you’ve got a funny mom! But you have got only 1 kid(so far!)….there isn’t much scope for trial and error!

]]> By: Zaina http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47116 Zaina Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:34:08 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47116 I believe in an open realationship with my baby. I want her to be able to tell me anything and plus I already know all the tricks kids play.. I played them with my mom, but I never got away with them because I am the youngest of 7. My mom always said "I know when you are lying, I heard those lies 6 times before" I believe in an open realationship with my baby. I want her to be able to tell me anything and plus I already know all the tricks kids play.. I played them with my mom, but I never got away with them because I am the youngest of 7. My mom always said “I know when you are lying, I heard those lies 6 times before”

]]> By: Abdullah http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/2009/08/30/analysis-it-is-much-harder-to-get-rid-of-her/comment-page-2/#comment-47113 Abdullah Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:15:21 +0000 http://www.rebelliousarabgirl.net/?p=8753#comment-47113 <a href="#comment-47108" rel="nofollow">@Zaina</a> she should be looking forward to some tough parenting :up: @Zaina
she should be looking forward to some tough parenting :up:

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