The main determining factor
Please accept my most sincere apology. The obvious determining factor to my lack of updates is the famous writer’s block. Although a lot of people email me and ask me questions daily, and suggest new things for me to talk about, but I just don’t have the drive that I used to. I think I am suffering from blog withdrawal syndrome. Dear me, I come up with many useless terms or excuses to justify my laziness. Typical Mona!
Now, to the good part. A lot of people suggested that I should add more polls. Sure!
Over the past few months, a lot of people have been asking me to talk about my point of view of Arab Muslims girls marrying Non-Arab Muslim guy converts, or vice versa. I thought about it, but I could not come up with a pro or con argument without starting a long never ending fight.
So, you choose to marry who you want, and if religion is your main determining factor, and it is for Muslims, then you have to honor that main aspect of the relationship. Otherwise, you will be on the road to too many hurdles in your relationship. You will be dealing with in-laws, life in general, unavoidable cultural interweaving factors that are strung along with religion, etc.
The Poll
Before you vote, keep this in mind, how long was this person a convert for? Is it enough time to understand an entire religion? Therefore, I wanted to see your opinions instead through a poll, and through the comment area.
Loading ...Note: This convert is to any religion that is the same as yours. Islam was just an example.
Blah Blah, Culture, Random Thoughts, Religion, They said what?, Whatever!
Come on people. Don’t be shy now..
Mona, you mentioned that the biggest problem would be a person who wasn’t part of a particular culture and how difficult it would be for the other person in the marriage to get used to that persons way of life. It is a fear of most anyone for someone to have doubts about a persons ability to congeal to a culture and a religion. Love isn’t something you can find in the sock drawer in some random house in some big neighborhood, in a sporadic country, on some little pea sized rock in the universe
. So why treat it like it is?
Isn’t half the thrill of new love the yearning to learn about someone, and not being able to predict the little things, which could be a good thing, and, especially, having the time to learn about that person? It is my opinion that having two cultures in one house can actually be beneficial, maybe not for reasons of perpetuating ones own cultural values, but if their were children involved the kids might have less of a tough time congealing to values and norms. Plus, it keeps the love new and never cold.
Whats worse than feeling comfortable in a marriage ya know, when its always best to be kept on your toes.
If I can give you any friendly advice, wait for the man to come to you, basically how your doing now, no? This is better because from experience when a woman goes after a man, it doesn’t last because the mans heart isn’t in it.
True Love is always without if And but.
If the person who is a recent convert has approached the faith like I do, then it’s a long process of reflection before actually converting and I therefore feel they have had the chance to come to terms with what the conversion means. For example: I, myself, have been studying Islam for much of the year and will likely be fully becoming Muslim in the coming months, but it’s important to me that I do not jump too fast without knowing what is in front of me. I would hesitate to marry someone who converted within a month or just a few days because then, no, I don’t believe they have taken enough time and would worry they were converting just to marry.
Good ideas so far you guys.. I appreciate. I hope more people vote since they kept begging me to make a poll! Now I did, and not many people participating. Typical!
What turned my answer on this one was the first part: IF RELIGION IS THE MAIN DETERMINING FACTOR…
It isn’t for me – heaven knows my husband and I have wildly different ideas about the functioning of the universe – but if it was, I imagine it would take me longer to agree to marry someone who had just recently converted. I would wonder if he was sincere or had just done it to please me/get married. Now that IS wonderfully flattering – however – I have no desire to be my spouse’s spiritual adviser, I do not want to be placed in the role of teaching him about my faith, as that would be a very awkward dynamic for a romantic relationship and also because I think faith is something that everyone has to come to on their own.
@Catherine
There ya go! You explained it perfectly the outcomes of marrying someone that has recently converted. That teaching phase and wondering why he did it. Did he do it out of faith or just to please you and get married?
I don’t know. I just could’nt marry a convert it seems to difficult and weird. Half of me knows he was a non-believer and would be hard to accept that he’s going to stay true to his deen. The converts I’ve met or observed, have bad friends around them who drink, smoke, go out to clubs, and their all born muslim! So all that converting went straight out the window. I hate the fact that when these converts are at their most vulnerable point the people around them dont cement their beliefs into strong ones, but just make them “so-and-so”. I knew a jamaican girl who converted to islam, she still got tattoo’s after, she wore her hijab for a while, now she’s in first year university, and everything she did went out the window. No more hijab, and veering back to her old ways. One example of converting for marriage is my fathers cousin, who married an italian man. He converted to Islam for the sake of her, but still makes fun of Allah and the Prophet peace be upon him. He still drinks and what not. Frankly he’s probably a catholic who just says “I’m muslim” for the sake of his wife. Living around this, I probably would of just spent my life teaching my convert husband about Islam, then actually having conversations about it. Besides its easier marrying somebody born into it.
Wow, the statistics are a lot more convincing now..
i voted yes, but like someone stated above, it would be difficult to marry someone who converted for me. They would have to do it for the sake of Allah subhanna wa ta Allah. Also a recent convert is still learning the shar’ia, sunnah, and hadith. Those things can really take an effect on adab, and can of course be a big weighing factor.
I know that the question is targeting if religion is your main determining factor but except people who don’t accept such type of marriage by any mean, you’ll never find a final or optimal answer for this question.
I see it depends more on the personality of the two persons and how they percive and apply religion. On the other hand, problems always occur between married couples either of the same religion (Islam for example) or from different religions (Islam for Husband – Jewish/Christianity for Wife) for many reasons other than religion.
I’m afraid, since I’m not religious I am not qualified to answer this poll!
i voted yes caz 2 me it dont matter if u r a muslim all yr life or a month as long as she prays n belives in islam n when some1 converts all of his/her sins r forgiven so in this way its the same as some1 who was a muslim all his or her life caz he/she wont be judged by god what they done b4 they were muslim n really its not converting but reverting
@Jasmine
sometimes people covert 4 all kind of reasons n sometimes there not the best reasons but inshallah after a while they really start 2 belive n there iman becomes really strong just as much or sometimes even better then some1 that was a muslim all of his life think about all those converts who even muslims that were muslim all there life n they turn 2 him n ask qustions a muslim is a muslim if they belive
Mona I didn’t take the poll because religion is not the main determining factor for me, so I have trouble relating to that state of mind! However, I do know that most Christians who put their religious beliefs ahead of everything else won’t even consider marrying somebody who doesn’t subscribe to the same exact version of Christianity, and that’s in countries where there’s no societal disapproval!
I am a convert (of 8 yrs) and my other half is also a convert (of 3 yrs) and we are different colours and different races.
Hi Mona,
If you dont mind I’m going to slightly drift away from the topic and talk about cross-cultural marriages between Muslims. Because Arabs marrying converts is considered as a cross or intercultural marriage. I’ve done lots and lots of rechearch on that, even before I wrote “Why do I want to marry an Arab girl.” No matter how we argue on why it would be better to marry someone of your own background, they’ll always be counter arguments and those counter arguments are never down to earth. Anyways I dont want to open a debate on this because it wont go anywhere and I might make people rebell out even more because I might sound like their parents. I’ve always been asking myself what causes cross-cultural marriages between Muslims. The problem with the Muslims of our generation today is that they dont know their limits when talking to the opposite gender, Islam is very strict on that. The rulings are: we must remain formal, modest and any unnecessary conversation must be avoided like friendly chit chats. Because Muslims nowadays don’t apply those rulings, they engage themselves into pre-marital relationships and that is the main cause of cross-cultural marriages, of course some exeptions do apply, but the vast majority of the time pre-marital relationships is the cause of it.
We have to face reality, nowadays it’s impossible not to talk with the opposite gender, we’re mixed either in school or at work. Now in the case of the convert man who chooses to marry a born Muslim girl, Arab or non-Arab, he has to approach her the proper Islamic way. From the way the girl talks from the way she reacts to certain situations, this will give the man an idea of how the girl is and from there he’ll ask about her to people who know her well, if he gets positive feedbacks about her then he’ll approach her guardian. The key here is to make sure that the man proposing does not get intimate with the girl and doesn’t make the girl get intimate with him. What I have mentioned above never happens, the convert, arab man for non-arab or non-arab man for arab, they all know if they approach the girl the proper Islamic way they’ll get refused by her and her guardian, because he comes form a different background. So lets take the convert for example, he will talk to the girl get to know personal things about her get intimate with her and make her get intimate with him then he goes to her guardian and proposes for marriage, in other he has to make sure to build up a strong relation with the girl before proposing so that in case he gets refused and chances are he will, the girl will keep on insisting because she has fallen in love with him, and the girl might be willing to rebell out against her family and this will cause serious heartache for her parents. Now here’s the question: If he spoke to you, got intimate with you, got you intimate with him, is he of a good character? Even if he knows the quran by heart, prays 5 times a day, gives Islmic lectures and so on, still he has no right to talk to you without the consent of your guardian. The problem is that when we fall in love, we dont think from our head, but rather from our hearts, we might not see or dont want to see any negatives about the person.
Here’s the deceiving part: Lots of Muslims who got married outside their background, they’ll argue that Islam condemns racism, and yes it does, but when it comes for marriage it is not a question of racism, but it is a question of suitability. They’ll also tell you as long as he/she is a good Muslim than thats all that counts, but religiouness is not the only thing to consider. They’ll talk to you with such great passion that they’ll make you feel so guilty because you want to marry someone of your own background. They’ll never tell you Islam forbids pre-martial relationships, they’ll never tell you dont rebell out against your parents and get married with their blessings. Here’s what Hajj Gibril wrote in sunnipath.com (May Allah be pleased with him):
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=3678&CATE=239
Before anyone argues back, I’m fully aware that lots of intracultural marriages start off with a premarital relationship as well, but lots of them dont.
Salam
@mohamed u cant say this n expect me not 2 reply lol my good brother
if he gets positive feedbacks about her then he’ll approach her guardian.According 2 the Hanafi Madhab a adult female does not require the consent of her parents 2 marry or any other activty n is it not the profit pbuh a person with religion (islam)good manners n good charter marry them 2 yr dauthers !n was it allah that said wakhalaknakom cho3oban wa kaba2ila li ta3arafo salams my good brother
@Charlie
The only time when a woman can marry without the consent of her guardian is when the person whom she’s getting married to is a kufu (suitable) for her and by suitable I mean legally suitable for her based on the sharia, based on the conditions of suitability (kafa’a) and not what she thinks is suitable for her. If he’s not suitable then she’ll need the consent of her guardian and just for the record it is highly recommended that girl gets married off by her guardian (ask any scholar about that), but like you said it is only in the hanafi school of thought, I follow the shafi’i one. Now for the person who approaches the girl the non-Islamic way makes him of a bad character and her guardian has the absolute right to refuse him based on the hadith you’ve mentioned and the girl cannot marry him without the consent of her gurdian because he’s not a suitable match for her. As for the verse you’ve mentioned, marriage is not a pre-requisite for Muslims to know and learn from each other. Look, I’m not anti-crosscultural marriages, I’m against the way they start off. Just by giving dawa for the Muslims not to engage themselves into premarital relationships cross-cultural marriages will dramatically decrease.
Salamu 3alaikum
One thing I forgot to mention: In Islam the father is not required to tell the man proposing for his daughter the reason for refusing him, however he is required to tell his daughter why.
here’s the hadith properly written: “If someone comes to you [s. with a proposal] whose religion pleases you, as well as his character, give to them in marriage and if you don’t, there will be fitna in the land and widespread corruption.”
You see the hadith says “pleases you” (the gurdian) Alot of people tend to use and abuse this hadith especially when it comes to cross-cultural marriages where a guy of a different background proposes for a girl. Remember not everybody is of a good religion and character.
@mohamedsalams my good brother i really thank u 4 yr input so if i may ask u a qustion or 2 what about a man does a men need apoveral 2 from his dad or gurdian ? n who decides if hes kufu ? i really dont mean 2 try 2 come off as a bad person or anything n i know any 2 people should have the blessings of both familys i just dont understand why a adult woman cannot marry a man just caz of whatever reason her gurdian sees or thinks i mean 4 marryage he dont have 2 be there ?he dont have 2 be a witness heres another qustion what if she gos n gets marryed 2 a guy her dad dont like n then hes part of the family n another hadith says Those who r conscious of there Lord n maintain family ties will have increased in there age n there wealth n there FAMILY will love them !so if she done this it would be in his best character 2 accept him then right ?
i am asking u this caz i belive u what u r saying 2 so maybe u can help me understand in yr points as i know they r true wa alaikum salam
p.s in islam men is 1 degere higher then woman i understand that but also they have a brain just as men do(some have bigger brain lol) so why is it that she dont have the last word in who she speands her life with ?please allah 4 give me if i say something wroung if i do i dont fully understand this islam in this subject
Just to clarify, I dont think “men are 1 degree higher…” I just think they have different roles. Yes at the end of the day the person getting married should not be married off against their wish; but do you think if they fight against their whole family to marry someone no one likes how will they be happy in the future? You need family with every obstacle in life. I’m not saying one should not marry whom they think is suitable; but what kind of “relationship” would they have before marriage that would mean the person would go against every single family member to do this? Exceptions do happen yes, but I think if a person is genuinely a good person, the family will come around sooner or later. And to all their own. Wallahu Alim!
@mohamed p.s my good brother u do know
the Hanafi school is the oldest
@Mahsa i assume u r talking 2 me so i will answer back lol i agree with u u always need family all i am trying 2 say is a adult woman should be able 2 have the last word in who she marrys no 1 else n i am a sunni muslim n so it says in the Hanafi school of thought a adult female dones not require the premision of any1 4 anything i know she should have her parents blessing but all i am saying is she dont need it i know every muslim must n should love there parents n respect them as everyboby should muslim or not u do know some parents r wroung 2 sometimes n it does say this in the Quran the 1 degree higher thing just 2 clarify that lol salams n thanks 4 yr input
@Charlie
Salamu 3alaikum,
A man does not need the consent of his parents for marriage, but it would be better if he listens to what his parents tell him. A father and his gaughter both have right to refuse a non-suitable spouse. Suitability (kafa’ah) is four things:1-religiousness 2-lineage 3-profession and 4-any mental of physical defect with the man. Kafa’a only applies for the Muslim women, it’s what she and her guardian see in a man. If the girl chooses to let go of thses four conditions then her fahter has the right to hold them on her behalf, and if the father lets go of those 4 conditons then the daughter has the right to claim them. If the daughter agrees to marry someone who’s not suitable for her and she gets the consent of her father, then the marriage is permissable and the marriage contract is valid. If the daughter is gets married to a non-suitable partner without the consent of her guardian then she’s living in a sin, her marriage is void. It is the guardian’s responsability in Islam to make sure the girl is married off to a suitable partner. You must understand that the father’s heart towards his daughter is undescribable, fahters will always worry about their daughters even fater they get married. Insh’Allah one day you’ll get married and you’ll be blessed with a daughter, and a guy comes to your house and asks her hands in marriage, but you as a father you have a bad feeling about this, somethng you’re not comfortable with…subhanallah your heart tells you no, and your daughter insists on marrying this man, she doesn’t listen to you and married him, how would you feel? Right now you dont have a daughter, but when you do one day you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.
o ya…a woman weither she’s young or not has the right to refuse a man for marriage even if her father wants her to marry him.
@Mahsa
You must understand, it takes a lot for a girl not to listen to her family and marry the person. Most of the time this happens in cross-cultural marriages, as I have mentioned before those mariages most of the time start off by a pre-marital relationships. The reason why a girl doesn’t listen to her family is because she got intimate with him because the guy made her do that. It’s always the guy that makes the girl rebell out aginst her family. Some guys after getting refused they talk to the girl in secret and convince to marry him. The latest thing that guys do nowadays, is to act religious which attracts certain type of girls. Take it form me I’m a guy and I know how guys think, if a man talks talks to girl gets to know personal things about her, gets intimate with without the consent of her guardian then he does not have true respect for the girl nor does he have respect for her family which makes him of a bad character. A family might eventually accept the guy whose married to their daughter, but they will never be pleased with him, it’s always gonna leave a scar. If one day I present myself for marriage and I get refused I’ll walk away because I dont want to create any problems in the girl’s family.
@mohamed salams do u belive in love ?
@Charlie
I dont believe in lust. You see, it does happen that people fall in love before marriage, if you met the girl and from day one you spoke to her guardian, in other words her guardian knows about you before u fell in love thats it’s fine. We cant marry soemone we hate right?…lool!!!
Of course!!!! U must love the person to whom you’re getting married to.
@mohamed lol right lol i belive love how ever it happens is from Allah n besides Islam love is the greatess gift that Allah can give u or me or anyboby in this world so who is anyboby 2 refuse anything from Allah my good brother i thank u again 4 yr input n i do agree with u 4 the most part u see my problem is i come from a christain family were every man asks her dad b4 he asks her himself but inshallah the dad always says yes i cant remember any 1 here not getting marryed caz of her dad or anything like that salams my good brother n may Allah guide u n keep u on the right path n me 2
Mohammed
You seem to know what youre talking about so can you explain to me why Muslim women have the highest suicide rate in the world in the age bracket of 18-25 (the age most get married)?
Also, Lots of muslim families are quite tribal so they pretty much refuse everyone thats not from their own tribe. I guess thats covered in ”lineage”.
@Mais
To be honest with you sister I did not hear anything about this stat, can you please give me the source?
Tribalism is forbitten in Islam, in fact there’s a hadith about that, I don’t know how it goes. A guardian who refuses someone for his daughter because he comes from a different tribe is wrong. Lineage has nothing to do with tribe, it has to do with the race as a whole.
“Our school takes kafa’ah (suitability) in lineage into consideration, so an [s. Arab] father has the right to reject a non-Arab man who proposes to marry his daughter. This is not discrimination between races, rather this is respecting the differences in human dispositions and customs between the races. The differences in dispositions between non-Arabs and Arabs are clear even among Muslims, irrespective of whether these are correct or incorrect.” (Shaykh Amjad Rasheed)
Women & Islamic Cultures: Family, law, and politics – Suad Joseph, Afsaneh Najmabadi
http://www.unfpa.org <— united nations website
http://www.unfpa.org/public/cache/offonce/News/pid/2936
http://www.unfpa.org/emergencies/symposium06/docs/daytwosessionfivecyasin.ppt – 2008-07-15
Well By suicide Im including honor killings as well as girls killing themselves to 'preserve family honor' because thats suicide under another name. UN estimates put it at around 4000-6000 each year. But I guess that to some people honor killings (suicides) are totally justified under religious doctrine.
Can I also ask you, Mohammed, do you think that its okay for girls to be married off to their cousins. I mean its hard enough without having youre cousins allowed to see you sexually. Also, do you think there should be an age of restriction for marriage?
Among the four established Sunni schools of legal thought in Islam, the Hanafi school is the OLDEST. It has a reputation for putting greater emphasis on the role of REASON and being slightly more LIBERAL than the other three schools. The Hanafi school also has the most FOLLOWERS among the four major Sunni schools.I just wanted 2 put this out there this is the 1 were it states that a adult female does not requrie the premision from her dad or a guardian 2 marry a man p.s i know she should but i am just stateing that she dont need it n if she diden get it the marryage would be vaild salams
@Mais
if i may what do u mean with its hard enough without having youre cousins allowed to see you sexually ?
Well Charlie what I meant was its hard enough that if youre attractive, most men you study, work with, are in youre group of friends see you sexually, ie want to have sex with you.
I mean is it too much for me to ask that I can at least be comfortable with the men in my family? Or is every man out there other than my immediate family and uncles allowed to want to have sex with me one day?
ok i understand ya now i can see some1 marrying there 3ed or even there 2ed but i just cant understand some1 marrying there 1st i know its allowed but ugggg its really like marrying some1 whos already family
n lets just say the man (the husband)his father in law would also be his uncle i dont understand why this is even allowed 
@Mais
A lot of women are abused everywhere in the world not just in Muslim contries. I read the links u gave me, it’s very sad. The women in Palestine get abused quite often by the zionist occupiers. Look at the women here in the west, they’re under lots of pressure to be dressed up inappropriately, being used as sexual objects as well. It is ok for a girl to marry her cousin, however if she refuses him as a husband then her parents cannot force her and this goes for every man who presents himself for marriage (cousin or not). There is nothing wrong with arranged marriages in Islam, however forced marriages go against the teachings of Islam. By arranged marriages I mean parents find spouses for their children and they let them sit with each other and if they get along then they take it to the next step, they don’t then they move on. As for age restriction it’s not right to make a girl marry someone who’s 20 years older then her…it’s not fair. She should get married to someone who’s for example 2 to 7 years older than her. Does Islam has age restriction for marriage? That I do not know, but I know that when a girl reaches puberty sometimes her parents marry her off in some countries, but this is happening less and less often nowadays.
Mohamed, Im not talking about fairness, fairness is completely subjective throughout different cultures religious and ethnic backgrounds. For example, muslims think honor killings (suicides) are fair. Some African tribes believe that cooking and eating the body of an infidel is fair.
I dont have a problem with arranged marriages either, Ive met a few girls in my life that (really) need guidance in choosing decent men. Im talking about the proven scientifically documented problems of girls under 18 giving birth, psychological and physiological effects of child marriages on girls, and a whole host of other things which Islam permits. Im very concerned about the children and feel they should be protected under secular state law rather than sharia law which if a child gets her period at age 11 can technically be married off. What a disgrace.
I couldnt really care less about Western girls problems. If she feels pressure to have sex I only advocate widely available condom and birth control pills. However, the incidence of teenage pregnancy is very very very low in most the developed world, minus the UK. Even then, in the UK it has got more to do with the benefits of being a single mother than girls actually forgetting to take a pill or use a condom.