Are you one of those prisoners?

Don’t think negative Mona, always be optimistic.

I met my hubby at a wedding in dallas. He actually came up to me and stArtted a conversation,which immediately I saw as a plus cause he didn’t send mommy to ask about me. The next day we went out for lunch and spent the whole day together before he went back to his city and me back to california.

It’s trivial for Arabs in the West, especially since many of us first gauge a person’s marriage potential whenever we meet a member of the opposite sex. An unfair expectation that we have of people, because we’re taught to meet a person with a good job, a pretty face, a close-knit family, etc.

I guess I want to see my wife as a more than just a good business deal who fits criteria, but rather as a decent human being who I’m compatible with. But, again, how do you do that without alone time or without dating? Or how do you do that when you don’t grow up with the family like back home? Again, trivial and sometimes unfair.

This is all too confusing. I think I’ll marry a horse….or a goat…or both? but now I have another dilemma

I couldn’t take the poll because you forgot the “divorced” category!

I’ll answer the question anyway though

I got engaged (but not married) when I was 18 and in the Marines. She was my best friend’s sister, who I had somehow never met until after I joined the service even though I’d known him for a couple years by then! He was holding out on me!

I met my former wife at work. We were married about 10 years.

It seems harder than before, because we can’t seem to know what we want. We are utterly confused, and easily unsatisfied with everything and anyone around us.

Dunno about that! I got engaged to a latina (I’m anglo) in 1983 so that’s a long time ago! And I married a woman who grew up in communist China. I think those both qualify as “difficult” relationships, and if I had to guess I’d say that inter-racial and/or inter-cultural relationships are easier now than they used to be. I’d say from my own experience that marriage stops seeming difficult when you meet somebody you want to marry. At least, on a personal level.

@Murad

An unfair expectation that we have of people, because we’re taught to meet a person with a good job, a pretty face, a close-knit family, etc.

Ah, that part is so different from how I grew up! In my family, absolutely NOBODY meets the extended family unless they are “pending” family members already! No time for mere boyfriends/girlfriends! And it’s a pretty big deal even to bring somebody home to meet your folks! Means it’s serious!

Always keep in mind that marriage is a huge committment. Its like the saying in Arabic, il jeeza mitil al bateekha(marriage is like a watermelon); you never know what you get.
And it is so hard for those of us in the West. I know I was so anti-marriage until I was 25 ish. Then when I was ready(by then not even totally ready), I did not like the traditional route. I hated when my parents got the call “oh my son saw your daughter” or “we heard you have a daughter” I was like gag me with a spoon. I am very lucky that my parents are very open minded and always gave us the choice and never pressured us.
And honestly, looking back now, I wish I had waited a little more. ( I was 26 going on 27) My little sis is 28 and has no intention of getting married now, she is enjoying her life and her career. And the close mindedness of 98% of Arab guys deters her as well.
Mentalities are slowly changing, slowly, but they are.

@Dena B
marryage is like a watermelon u never know what yr goin get lol maybe in saudi when u only meet n even see yr wive till after the party n everything is over lol i will never marry any girl without knowing her first n knowing everything about her so i will know what im getting n she will know what shes getting p.s no offence 2 any of u saudis out there if it works 4 ya all the best it just dont work 4 me

I guess I didn’t make myself clear. My point was that many Arabs won’t spend time meeting another person unless they match a laundry list of attributes. I don’t want my kids to marry simply because of a job or social status. Those are great things, but what’s so wrong about finding someone with a little personality to boot? It’s something my parents haven’t quite figured out yet…

As far as family goes, there is no time for bf/gf relationships for many Arabs and mine is no different. I don’t have family members that live in the states, and this provides two problems. One is that I don’t have a support system to help me find that special someone. Two is that it gathers suspicion from other Arabs because they don’t “know” who are or where you come from. What’s a guy to do?

I’ve decided upon marrying a household appliance, btw. Perhaps, my television. Animals are just too much maintenance.

mine was @ Craig btw. sorry that my nerdiness has transformed itself into computer illiteracy. It’s a disease or something, but I promise it’s not contagious!

@Mona

Thank you!

@Dena B
98%?!!! come on!! you know thats not true. I know plenty of Arab guys who are looking to get married to an educated woman and who has a goal in life.

Mona,
I love this topic. The year I met my wife I swore I was never getting married. Work and friends that was perfect for me. Freedom to do whatever I wanted. It is easier for men, in this situation we are independed and commited to our jobs, for a woman people start asking “so whats wrong with her?”
I was working in Jordan when I met my wife. I had never been to the Middle East, had no intention of marrying, and I am an anglo that had no knowledge of the Middle East at that time. We are both archeologists, she worked for the department of antiquities and I worked for my professor. We spent 3 months excavating together. By the end of that time I went to meet 4 of her brothers and her father. The next year I returned and we were married. We have been married for 10 years, have 2 boys and sure we have had our ups and downs like any couple but every day I still thank god that I went to Jordan that year.

A note about strong independent Arab women: When we meet she was strong, independent, educated and funny. From what she told me, she was “too much to handle for most Arab men in Jordan”. sorry mohamed.

@Mona

a fridge was suggested, but I feel like a television will appreciate you more.

@Mona

=P

@marc
With all do respect to your wife and I truly mean that, I think Arab women who say what your wife says are considered to be narrow minded. Lots of Arab men are married to Arab women who are just like your wife and even more educated and more independent, so you cannot generalise. A lot of non-Arab men mistreat their wives, especially when they’re drunk. Anyways I wish you a happy marriage.

Salam

@ Mohamed
Really? where are those guys?
I’m not talking about only education here. It is other factors.
I get my stats based on the fact that people assume that because my sister lives in a completely different city from my parents(where she went to school and got a job) that they assume the worse about her. And because she does not follow the “norms” , they think she is strong ie in Arabic “kawiya” oooh because heaven forbid she has her own life.
A woman’s independence is a threat to some of these guys, that is undeniable.

@Dena B
To be honest with you Dena I don’t know from wehre you get those thoughts. If you take me for example I want to marry someone who’s not only educated, but also with a strong personality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a women being independent (can you please explain your point of view of independence?) I want to marry someone who’s competent!!! Look, there’s the good and bad everywhere you go, there’s some Arab guys who are narrow minded, I’m not going to deny that, but this goes for all men, arab or non-arab, thats because of men and their ego. My cousin is married to the biggest business woman is Syria and she’s far more independent than lots of Arab woman. I don’t want to accuse you of anything, but I think and I might be wrong, you’re a little too extreme. Tell your sister like what I told Mona, never think negatively, always be optimistic. One day insh’Allah your sister will be blessed with ibn el-halal who’s gonna make her happy.

By the way I really like the picture you have posted.

Salam

Patience young one, your time will come when you least expect it. My friends and some of my family were very shocked when I agreed to an arrange marriage being the the most liberal one amongst my friends. Sometimes the old school way works, depends on the person and circumstances. Freedom is nice, but are you telling me you would not like someone to hold at the end of long hard day?…. and a million (sorry, billion) other things.

I love my privacy and solitude too much to ever get married… but never say never…

Dena

So whats it like being married? I have some friends that are in relationships and they have to tell their partners/bfs if they want to go out. So do you have to ask youre husband if you want to go out? And do you ever get sick of seeing youre husband? No offense im not trying to be rude, I just want to understand.

Oh, and, I hope its not too private but Ive liked guys in the past, and when they are rude or disrespectful towards me, I stop liking them. So if youre husband is rude or mean to you one day, I guess you cant just stop liking him because youre married?

=)

@Mohamed
I am anything BUT extreme. I speak from experience…it’s a different perspective when you are a female. I have had to live it. And you may fall in the 2% I dunno. Like I said, there are a small percentage that are not close minded. It goes beyond what you are saying about strong personalities and education!
And did you read what else I said about my sis? Arab society assumes stuff. So …
Independence…well for example living on your own for a while, paying rent, not living at home whether it be for college or work. Its having trust to do what you want, when you want. But within boundaries, most people think that independence means loose behavror. But that they are not synonymous.
Ba3dayn Mohamed, its not also about that….My siblings and I were born in the US and there are differences in mentalities. For example, when I got married, my mother in law lived with me for a while. It was hell, why? because I do not sit around quiet and ignore like it is taught or like our culture “dictates” I answer back, I did not follow her traditional idea of what a daughter in law was. And i could go on, but I won’t.
And dont take it personal,
I hope you understand my point.

@ Mais
LOL I never ask for his \permission\. It just becomes common courtesy to tell him where I am going. I think we do it more now because of the kids and I have to keep one of them with him usually But for example if he is at work or out of the house, I dont’ tell him.
I dont’ get \sick\ of him per se, but sometimes(and any married couple will tell you this) I need a break! But that’s resolved when he is at work and we both have our \me\ time.
heheheh I hate rudeness and in marriage when that happens, it’s a hurdle you have to overcome and learn how to deal with it. But I am assuming if someone is constantly rude, you wont’ marry him/her. And when my hubby is rude, I hit him with a frying pan ! j/j.
Actually you discuss it like adults

I met my on my first day at work in a town with 3000 people. We were the only Arab staff members, and the only Muslims. Our first meeting was not love at first sight. I left our interaction thinking he’d reaffirmed how awful Arab men are and determined never to get married. Eventually he wormed his way into my life and after about a year and a half we got married. The important part in everything was that we did it all on our own terms. We kept our families out of it, got to know each other, made an adult decision as a couple and then involved our parents.

@Mais…I know you asked, Dena, but some times I do get sick of seeing my husband, so I go out with my friends, or take some me time. When he’s rude or disrespectful I tell him, if you can’t be honest with your spouse who can you be honest with?

@Dena B
It is true Arab society assumes stuff, but that goes for pretty much for every society. Arab or non-Arabs, people talk a lot. As for the independence you’ve mentioned I don’t see anything wrong with that. I did a lot of stat courses back when I was in university, we cannot jump into conclusions based on personal observation, because no matter how much we see it will be insignificant, so to say 2% or whatever other percentage, you cannot because you didn’t do an actual study. Fee shabab wlad halal ou mafee ahsan minhom. And no I’m not taking this personal, bel3akss I like to discuss this issue, because it’s all a misunderstanding at the end of the day. Tell me what bothers you about Arab guys, beside being “scared” of an independent woman?

@ Mohamed
Oh gimme a break and don’t get all technical on me with stats. You are blowing it out of proportion.
Like I said Mohamed, I am coming from a female side of things, so what I see(and experienced) and you see are completely different and we may never agree.
And let’s be honest Arabs talk way more than Westerners do because of our tradtitions and culture. But I don’t blame you for not seeing this, because males don’t have to deal with this as much.
And yes fee shabab wlad 7alal, hamdillah I married one!

@Dena B
I don’t mean to upset you or anything, What I meant was, we should never generalise. Talking about people has nothing to do with tradition and culture, for example if I was to take an anthropology course about the Arab culture it wouldn’t say anywhere that Arabs talk a lot about people, this strictly depends on the person him/herself. One thing I must disagree with you is that Arabs and westerners and other non-Arabs all talk a lot, believe me westerners talk as much as Arabs probably even more. Besides let people talk toze feehom, don’t even care.:razz:

Salams

Also I forgot to mention, insh’Allah when I get married I want someone who’s educated, has a goal in life and with a strong personality. Because as you know a mother plays a big role in raising the kids, so if she’s not educated or weak personality then the kids will be affected by that.
As for your sister, she shouldn’t get affected by people’s words, she should ignore them. Again tell her to be optmistic. The Prophet (PBUH) said: Be optimistic and good shall come.

marriage is something that takes time, like a flower growing in a field, it eventually dies. The marriage is something that will last for all time. It is one of the easiest and one of the hardest decisions to make, Mona, you will make yours in time I trust. For now, enjoy the decay, enjoy the rust.

I think part of the problem for our generation is having too much choice, too many options and a greedy hope for something better; the Internet has a hand in multiplying those by 100. With millions of online profiles, one’s dream guy/girl has become out of control. Maybe it’s also because we don’t believe in fate as much as our elders did.

Our grand-parents didn’t have the luxury of choosing who to marry. Arranged marriages were the norm in the Arab World, and traditions were at their most conservative. So, dating or, worse, divorce was out of the question lest it should bring dishonor onto the girl’s family.

Our parents were virtually no different, even if they belonged to the post-colonial era, marked by more progressive thinking, bilingualism and ease to go abroad. They were still torn between their parents’ conservative customs and the colonizer’s more liberal lifestyle.

Nowadays, mothers exhort their sons to get a wife to help with the house chores, and put tremendous pressure on their daughters to get a rich husband. And then, girls are blamed when they’re impregnated and dumped. The guy, however, is happy to oblige since he can’t “contain his sexual urges” anymore, and thinks marriage is the ‘lawful’ way of having sex.

I think that if chemistry isn’t spontaneous, no marriage should follow.

@Mona
I did lots of rechearch on this topic, mainly on the Islamic rulings of refusing and accepting a spouse. I argue, but I don’t fight. ok maybe with marc because he’s a jerk for saying what he said and he crossed the line, so I had to talk back.

@Mona

Only 2 out of 44 people who replied are divorced!? The divorced people just didn’t take the poll! Except for me! And somebody else.

@Craig

I must be the other divorced person and now I find out I’m a marginal error? What a day. At least I’m in good company.

Hey Mona,

Good topic. I have always been career first. But I just entered my mid-30’s and would like to get married. Several of my friends that got married in their 20’s are divorced or on their way to divorce court. I do wonder if people that get married later really stay married longer.

@mohamed
Excuse me. I am a jerk. I did not call you a name. On the other hand you called me a jerk and my wife narrow minded. You sir are the narrow minded jerk.

@mohamed

@marc
Your wife is narrow minded for saying what she said and you’re a jerk for mentioning what your wife said. Look, your wife married you because she fell in love with you and not because you can “handle” her, so don’t get too excited thinking that Arab men cannot handle someone like your wife, they can handle far more than that.

Salam

I met my wife in college. We were taking a sysadmin program, and ended up being partners on a number of labs together. Assorted study dates later we got together, and now we have rugrats and a mortgage. Pretty straightforward.

We were both “looking” at the time, and we were both around 30, and so much more secure in our personalities.

Not being committed to a long term traditional marriage is encouraged, not neccessarily intentionally, by the way western industrialised societies and economies are shaped. Being free and single has many advantages in the West, but biggest pitfall to avoid is ending up just living a self-centred life just counting the days, and the money you make and spend and things you buy. Since my marriage I have more responsibilities and have to make more effort during the week and weekend, but I do not feel like I am wasting my days or in need/motivation to make effort for women’s attention. Also I feel my extra efforts are for someone(s) who are well worth it and who would reciprocate with same for me or even much more. My time now is far far less wasted on non-productive activities. If you’re not interested in marriage do what you like and shape your life in a way you’re happy with. If you are interested in marriage you do not need to shape it according to old customs/norms that belong to a different place or a different time. Best way to meet the right man is to to work on yourself to be the woman who that nice man needs and is looking for, place yourself in the right environments to meet him, then just wait without making too much effort or being impatient, your naseeb will come to you

End of lecture

When I was single I used to think that I would never (I’ll repeat that) NEVER find someone. I wanted to be married and felt that my chances were pretty slim. I concentrated on being a better person and before you know it I met my wife. If you are interested in the story, I posted about it on my blog:
http://cajoh.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-i-met-my-wife.html

Much like a watched pot never boils, wanting to find a partner doesn’t happen if you look for it. So often we have this laundry list of the perfect mate and when you actually do get married you find that the laundry list doesn’t apply.

Look inward and find out who you are and how you want to be perceived by others. Before you know it you will meet someone who likes you for “Who” you are and not “What” you are. Then who knows… we may hear wedding bells soon enough.