The forbidden feeling

Mona,

I am seeing this over and over within my extended family. I am american, raised catholic of european ancestory. My husband is egyptian/muslim and grew up in Egypt. I have witnessed one example in particular and it blows my little western mind away. One of my husband’s cousins just got engaged to a man she hardly knows. My husband’s brother picked out a fiance as if he were trying on a good pair of jeans. It’s like.. “Hmmm.. she looks like she would be a good wife.”

Then I watch the charade of “love.” Claiming to be madly in love with someone you basically just met. I glance at pictures, where two strangers are sitting next to each other, kind of a forced kinship – yet they are clearly uncomfortable,

I am not sure where I am going with this – but… it seems bizarre to me. Tradition is one thing, entering false “love” relationships is completely another.

Nicole Abdou

PS – Glad my husband went with his heart!

Loved it…I find that when an arab couple start dating before marriage/engagement. It is the guy who always tells the girl that he wants to keep it secretive…which i think is nonsense..HOWEVER..if the arabic dude dated a non-arabic girl..he’d make it known to the whole world that he is dating..I think it’s stupid!

I totally agree. I’ve never understood this either.

seriously … we ARABS we suck when it comes to emotions ! and i think we should all blame our mothers for that!!! i mean it seems that emotions as a whole are not expressed because they weren’t nursed as we grew up !

but when it comes to love for real i have been there loved like a sucker .. i even celebrated stupid things like valentines day and all the 1 week and 1 month and 90 days …etc anniversaries ! and where did that leave me hmmmmmm lets see heart freaking broken just because she’s CHRISTIAN so as for me i wouldnt consider love as a positive emotion and am happy that i stopped feeling it ! so i personally think that if you haven’t loved you’re a winner already ! ! but am all for knowing the one you are about to marry

and it is like picking a pair of shoes you see what fits from the inside and the outside ! and i mean this in the most positive way ever !

great post
peace

Wanted to add another huge double standard that makes me so sick of Arab culture: women are not allowed to love, but men are. A woman who says she even wants to get married (not even in the context of a particular person, but just saying she wants to marry in general) is considered disgraceful. She just has to wait until her father or brothers decide to bring her somebody. She has to pretend she’s never heard the word “love” before in her life and it never occurred to her to desire it. If she dares say she loves a certain guy, she’s condemned by her family. On the other hand, a man is perfectly free to announce not only that he wants companionship, but he’s also got the power of choosing whoever he wants. Yet, somehow, once a woman is married all of a sudden she’s expected to have the capacity to love, as if a switch was turned on.

ohh i have so much i can talk about on this post that its impossable 2 write it all lol first i have 2 thank God that i have a girl n we r planing on getting engaged soon n i have 2 thank God even more that her mom is open minded .When i was there (egypt)after a few days her mom invited me 2 stay at there home n everything (her husband was away but he knows this ) n she even tell her mom that she loves me (big happy face here)n even her mom tell me that she loves me 2 . I phone her n everything (the girl) but its still kindy a secret caz if any of her aunts there she cant talk 2 me (on the phone) . I am the other way every1 here knows about her all of my friends,family ,any 1 that means anything 2 me knows about her n i want 2 tell the whole world. The only thing now is i am going back in july 2 meet her dad n plz God get engaged n then she will tell every 1 two .I hate keeping secerts of any kind n its crazy 2 keep a secret from any 1 that u love some 1 …this i will never understand ,marryed or not or whatever .After all God has 2 be the 1 that gives u this feeling caz its not from satin thats 4 sure . Also if 2 people love each other ,then the people that love them (moms n dads n whoever) should make it as easy as possable 2 help them be togethere n get marryed . I belive in getting marryed first after u find that person that u want 2 share yr life with .But Its crazy 2 get engaged 2 some1 u dont even know or 2 have 2 get engaged 2 get 2 know him/her anyways all i know is i hope 2 God her dad accepts me …really good post mona ,u out done yrself salams always

@Saffron
‘ She just has to wait until her father or brothers decide to bring her somebody’ people should know that even in the time of the profit(pbuh)hes marryage 2 his first wive ,she was the 1 that arrange the marrage .

@Charlie
there’s a huge gap between what Islam establishes for people and the way Arab culture actually goes on. Very few people actually listen to their religion, unfortunately. It’s extremely rare for a woman in Arab society to have the kind of respect and control over life that Khadijah (rah) had. Congrats to you, btw, masha’Allah.

Great post! Again this is issue is so controversial. With the many dilemmas faced in this world, people should just follow their hearts. Peace Out ^^

yeah i agree with chimera ,but what about the girls who cant follow there hearts ?

@Saffron

@Incandescent Chimera
n thanks saffron

@Charlie
Congratulations, wish you and your fiance to be a happy, wonderful, prosperous life together with many great days ahead.

@Incandescent Chimera
really thank u very VERY much

hey there.
nice post but really i dont know from where did you get this info. (honor killings are permissible in such situations) this only happens in a few cases when sex outside marriage involve.
also (The divorce rate in arranged marriages is almost the same as none) i am not sure from where did you get this info also. i hope you post more accurate infromation. if you were a victim of such case the solution will not be for sure to attace a whole culture nor to write some inaccurate infomration.
regards
fadi

Thanks for replying and for being honest about from where you are getting those info. So there is no accurate study/facts that say that. Well mona you don’t live in arab world i mean your observations of people and life around you is irrelevant (although i am sure honour killing never happened anywhere around you). saying that honour killings are permissible in case of love is totally not correct. also the divorce rating thing is not correct to.
My point is mona is posting incorrect information that the whole world will read about someone’s culture is not acceptable by anyone even if you are posting about your own. I hope next time you post with accurate information so when people from other backgrounds read get true and beneficial information. You don’t want anyone says (you know what arab cannot love because they will end up dead because of the honour killing)
I really appreciate your honesty and being open so please don’t take anything from my side personal.
Just my 2 cents.
fadi

well mona you took personal after all i don’t want to prove you wrong on any way but what u said is not correct that’s all and i am sure you too have doubts about it. The fact that I live here I can see that both ways of getting married has their issues sometimes you see success stories sometimes you see failed ones form both sides. And regarding the love honour killings its not there at all not even one case. anyway i would like to know why you want them to change in that matter i mean if they are fine with it what is the big deal dose it have to be western way to be acceptable. That’s the beauty about having different culture and different backgrounds because we are different it’s a fact and nothing will change that. I am not saying its wrong or correct I am saying that we are different.
Peace
Fadi
P.S i dont want to start a debate on this we both have diffent points of view which is fine with me.

I am sooo happy you tackled this topic. It is such a foreign concept to me, and one i am becoming more and more familiar with – and I am completely baffled by! I feel honored to be welcomed by my husband’s arab community – however, I was just telling a close friend of mine about to marry into this community – I am sooo sad for the women. (Especially for those still living in a 100% arab society.) Majority of my new cousins (in law) have no idea the lack of freedom they have to follow their hearts.
I have been writing extensively on the culture differences on my blog also. And tackling the adventures of a non-arab woman marrying and learning to live with the cultures and societal norms of my wonderfu egyptian husband. *sigh* It’s a lot to understand.

honour killings,honour killings,honour killings….
do you know mona?….how many domestic and love related killers waiting for execution in western countries?…they are more than the population of the entire arab world.
honour killings are common in every relegion and “isms” (COMMUNISM,COMMUNALISM,ATHEISM,THIS ISM AND THAT ISMs..when it happens in muslim or arab family,they are linked directly to DESERT ARABS or ISLAM.
stop arguing with prejudice.
as for as divorce in marriage is concerned,the statistics shows,the so called free society of own choice marriage is ten time more than traditional marriages.
i think ,the problem is same,whether it is arranged marriage or mariage by choice…

i liked your answer so much i totally agree with you honestly i too want arab to be open minded within the boundary of their religion. i too want them to think beyond closed minded old ways, I too want them to respect the system, I too want them to read more.
Killing love happens many time here its not related to honour but families here think that they know better for their kids. They think they have more experience so they are wiser well sometimes they are sometimes they are not. when it come to love and the relationship between man/woman there is culture and religion issue were people see it wrong when it take too long time to be converted to marriage I mean here if there is love it should not take long time before it become official announced by engagement. i mean come on Don’t you agree with that I mean if there is love it should end by marriage so it should be official by engagement? some families yes they don’t agree even when love exist cuz as I said before they think that the parties involved in this are not right for each other for many reasons like social reasons, education level, family level…etc I am sure you know all of them.
fadi

@fadi

(although i am sure honour killing never happened anywhere around you).

It’s happened around me. A few years ago a Muslim girl was killed by her father for playing online games and making friends who weren’t Muslims. I can’t recall her name or the city it happened in so I unfortunately can’t provide the link, but I’m not imagining it.

saying that honour killings are permissible in case of love is totally not correct.

Well, I did find this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,437502,00.html

The girls’ great-aunt, Gail Gartrell, says the girls’ Egyptian-born father killed them both because he felt they disgraced the family by dating non-Muslims and acting too Western, and she called the girls’ murders an honor killing from the start.

Arab men and women don’t give love a chance. For example, I know Arabs who wanted to engage in a relationship with other Arabs, and it is often they don’t have the guts to go talk to the person they are interested in, or they don’t want to even give a chance to a person who is blatantly expressing an interest in them. Some then wonder why they are single.

then cool mona we have an understanting maybe you should post something that will make arab read more

well craig killing for playing online games its clear the that her father is crazy. for the second story well this is what i call culture shock were the father want his family to live fully arabic/islamic life in the middle of western socity which as you can see from that case is not easy at all. i mean come on they are living there studying there so most problem and logicly they will act the sameway that dose not mean that he was right of doing what he did.
fadi

well i am still new to ur blog but i feel that most of your posts are about arabs which being read by both arabs and non-arabs. anyways dont change your ways its up to you to write what ever you want. you dont have to be defensive all the time. you are talking about arabs as they are one person. only the one you know. well there are others differnt just like yourself.
peace
fadi

dont islam teach that u can be 4givin 4 anything anyways (besides worshiping others beside God)so why is honour killings even 4 any reason done 2 start with ???? in my view this is insane n its what gives islam a bad name ..2 wroungs dont make a right n it never will ,people who do this n have done this r insane n may God 4 give them …

Killing an innocent human being in not allowed by any means but it’s a culture issue that is not that common by the way. by the way this is not only an Arabic issue I was in Greece and I knew that some villages there have the honor killing too so its more of a culture issue rather than religion
fadi

thanks 4 u input .Dont honor killing mean in the arab world that they kill in the name of God ?

@fadi
sorry i 4 got 2 put yr name here ,i am asking u fadi or who ever else has an answer lol

1 other thing lol if people do this (honor killings)in the arab world n they r muslims then why do they let there culture over rule there reglion ?

@fadi
anyways again i thank u 4 yr input i just hate the name that these people give islam n that it what it seems 2 always come back 2 (islam)

You know all too well that honor killings have more to do with sex before marriage than with romantic love.

the greatest way 2 show romantic love 2 each other is 2 make love..ie sex

@Charlie Hayse Not when the girl has to prove she is a virgin on her wedding night.

@Wilmaryad
what i am saying sometimes sex n romantic love can be the same regardless if 2 people r marryed or not (i know they should be marryed i just pointing this out)salams

@Mona At the same time, too often has a guy threatened to leave his girlfriend if she refused to give herself to him. Being too madly in love, the girl signs gives in while nothing guarantees he’ll marry her. So, even if he loved her, he made her sign her own death certificate.

I am Arab and live in an Arab country, so these scenarios are way too common, sadly.

@Charlie Hayse
There’s no denying that, Charlie. It just doesn’t work like that in the tradition-preservation-obsessed Arab World. And Arab tradition expects the girl to remain a virgin until her marriage.

@Wilmaryad
if the guy really REALLY loves her then he will marry her first caz he wont ever want 2 put her in any danger …salams

ok glad u agree with that point n yeah i know all about arab tradion . I love most of the arab traditions btw n i have 2 say i love that girls do this (wait untill they r marryed) but even if they dont they should not be a outcast or in anyway hurt or anything .anyways salams n it was nice chating with ya :up:

@Charlie Hayse Some guys did get intimate with their girlfriends, asked for their hands but were turned down by the parents. Some girls have eloped with their boyfriends, staining the family’s reputation forever; others hoped to dupe their husbands on their wedding nights, but were beaten to death by the groom’s family; while some others refused to get married, using wanting to further their education as a pretext so as not to meet the two aforementioned fates.

i am in a situation now (waiting 4 a ladys dad 2 accept me)if u read what i write up above …”but were beaten to death by the groom’s family”now this is as crazy as it gets if they dont go 2 hell then why would a girl 4 having sex b4 she was marryed ? n they do this n think they r the good 1s this people need 2 read the Quran more (if they r muslims)this is really upsetting !salams

I am from KSA and live in the united states. I can tell you that love is not forbidden, but that Arabs believe you should not only follow your heart because love is blind and can be misleading. That being said, i completely agree that we need to relax a little and quit confusing religion and culture. Love is okay and not haram, but the change we are wanting must start with ourselves. I can tell you i’ve already set the record straight with my very strict, conservative, and religous family that I am going to marry someone i choose and fall in love with. My family is not happy with this choice because they would love for me to marry a nice boy they picked out for me but my parents both told me they understand and told me they always want me to follow my heart & be happy but not to marry someone only because I love him but look at all the other important factors…sorry i feel like i am babbling, i guess my point is be the change you want to see, i can tell you mine with my parents and extended fam has been a battle and still they talk to me every other day bout moving home and getting married but that’s not what my heart desires

Mona my dear come to the gulf and u will knw wat “3eeb” mean.. I knw tht most of arab contries if nt all r v close but whn it comes to gulf its the extreme.. Honestly its ffeel depressfull to waste ur life without joy and with always feeling unfair and not equal .. Feeling tht u dont own ur freedom is every arab gurl problem.. Things changed here from country to another and even from family to another or tribe to tribe but still things r bad overall.. In ma country we keeep our relation secretly first from the family .. Mainly ur parents and ur brother bkoz ur nt allowed to engage in a romantic relation ship with a guy .. Most ppl here coverin there love under traditional marrige so they lie to every body including family tht will never knw tht u used to knw ur hub .. Of course tht nt every one case as lots of local gurls are against love and soo on bkoz its 3eeb and koz men said so.. Honestly i started to a level where i cnt stand talkin to such close minded gurls or boys .. Lots of stuff to say about tht ..
I just wanted to tell u tht i like wat u r doin .. And just knwin tht there some one far way thinkin the same i do make me feel happy and tht im nt alone.. Good luck dear .. And if u couldnt change the society make ur own..