Guest Post: Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Wow…I really feel for this guest poster. What steps can you take to try and obtain the legal right to work? Why are your parents being so harsh? Do they directly blame you for the divorce? I couldn’t imagine why with this man cheating on you. He sounds like a pig. You are young and you deserve so much better. Please keep us updated.

Ok, what I’m about to say is heart to heart (eventhough I don’t know you but I really feel for you)! IT IS YOUR LIFE. Not theirs. Please, please, please, live life for YOU! NOT for your parents! Please don’t let that false guilt trick you. That guilt you are feeling comes from things your parents’ culture and society drilled into your head!

No, it is NOT a sin to live your life in a way that makes you feel comfortable! It is NOT a sin to do what’s best in YOUR interest! And it is especially NOT A SIN to be A STRONG AND INDEPENDENT WOMAN!

I’m an Arab man, from a really religious Muslim family. Their extreme religiousness and way of living has pushed me away from religion (hence why I’m an Agnostic now).

It fucking breaks my heart when I see fully beautiful capable women of leading an independent successful life being oppressed like that. What you’re going through is clearly a form of oppression, and I do not advise that you go through with it.

Live your life for YOU. Make the best of it. It’s not wrong to have hopes, dreams, and ambitions.

Let the people talk. Who gives a shit? What is their talk going to do? Is it going to harm you in any way? NO! You’re gonna be living in a whole other continent/country living your life for you, and they’ll be the usual lifeless people who are just talk!

Listen, your situation means a lot to me because I know my sister will be stuck in the same situation as you in the future and I will always back her up and make sure she’s the independent successful women she needs to be. No one should be ever put in a situation like this because of their GENDER. You should not be made to feel as if you’re weaker than others or are not in control of your own life just because you are a women!

I left you with my advice above and I really really really hope you make the right decision in the end and live your life for you! The final decision is up to you and I know that it is not an easy one but you have all my best wishes. Just remember, you staying there = unsatisfaction for POSSIBLY the rest of your life; you moving back and starting a new chapter = possibly a more reasonable decision (that will be very hard at the beginning but you will eventually get through it). The main goal of obstacles is to arise throughout one’s life… your main goal should be to challenge yourself and get through them and that’s what you might have to do if you choose to move back.

Sincerely,
Ibrahim

@Janet
Her parents are not being harsh. They’re being the typical 60% of Arabs. All of this wouldn’t even be happening to her brothers for the mere reason they’re male and she’s female. Really heart breaking

all i can say is i am sorry n hope things get better 4 u soon plz God

@Mona
Haha… forgive me. I may not have the best representation of Arabs since I distance myself away from them so much.

@ Janet: I can’t work here because I came under my dad’s work sponsorship, which prohibits his dependents to work. The only way I could work here would be to leave the country, apply for a job, and get a job. Then I can re-enter under my work’s sponsorship. But of course, if I left here, I wouldn’t come back, job or not.
They don’t blame me for the divorce, at least I don’t think so. But they are just typical Arabs in that sense. If a girl gets divorced, it is shameful for her to live on her own, because God forbid she is not a virgin anymore and that means she knows all about sex and how to get a guy, and would therefore engage in haram sexual activities…its also the mentality of the community. They look down upon divorcees and don’t leave them alone. They watch them wherever they go, waiting for a scandal to erupt.

@ Ibrahim: Thank-you so much for your inspiring words. Really, they made me feel hopeful. I realize that it is MY life to live, not THEIRS, but this constant threat over my head really gets me worrying. Like, anytime I’ve made any mistakes in the past or have gotten myself in trouble, my mom would always say it is because I didn’t listen to her, or am not following God. I know this is complete bullshit, because bad things happen to people all the time, but just the way I’ve been raises, completely conditioned me to think this way. I need to change this.
And you’re right, this wouldn’t happen to a male member of my family. Even though we have all been brought up in NA and have lived there our whole lives, my parents chose to hold on to their cultural non-sense. I mean, I’m in my twenties, I feel like I’ve already wasted so much of my life being controlled and not having a say in anything. Why should I waste any more?

@Charlie: Thanks.

@ Mona: “! I want them to wake up, smell the disgusting sheesha, and say they had enough.” This made me laugh. Lol. And its true, we need to realize what’s being done to us.
And thanks for creating this safe community for us in which people like me feel as though we have a voice, if not in our lives, at least in cyber-space. The only way to fix things like this is to educate people on how widespread it actually is, and get them to change, little by little, their way of thinking. I don’t want to come ten years down the road and still feel as though nothing’s happened.

Very heart-breaking and sad . They say religion oppresses people, I say culture is more destructive.

@Sarah
Culture and religion (especially in Arab countries) go hand in hand. The culture is oppressive to women because religion depicts men as having more power and always being the ones who make the rules and lead the pack while portraying women with a lesser importance. An example is the mere fact that out of the many prophets Islam has, not even one is a women.

So in conclusion, culture stems from religion and religious beliefs/interpretations/morals.

@The Girl Who Wrote This
Honestly don’t ever feel like you wasted your life! I’m in university and I have 50 year olds and 60 year olds as my classmates! New chapters in life can start anytime you want them to… age is just a number!

I don’t even know you in person but I feel like the mere fact you’re coming on here and sharing your story shows that you have empowerment slowly starting to sprout in you. I feel like there’s a lot that awaits you outside of your parents’ house…

As for the guilt, I totally know what you’re talking about. My parents raised me and my two siblings the same way. Once I joked about me being agnostic in a restaurant while I was out with the family, and my mom started crying. Me being an emotional person, I just felt enormous guilt and that shouldn’t have happened.My beliefs are mine and like Mona said, being a carbon-copy of her and my dad will contribute nothing positive to myself. That story is just a small example of how my parents are constantly making me feel guilty for everything through using religion as an excuse.

Eventually, I outgrew this guilt they try to enforce. Just have faith in what you think and what your INDIVIDUAL morals and values are (not your parents’ morals and values).. because after all, you grew up in your generation, not theirs, and it is your life, not theirs.

Just remember that the most important relationship that we have in life is the one we have with our selves because no matter who comes and goes, at the end of the day, you’ll have yourself, your thoughts, values, etc. I just don’t want you to be like 65 and still in your parents’ house regretting not living your life when you were in your ripe 20′s and had the power to do so…

What a hard situation.This scenario familiar for me ad a women came from Saudi Arabia, i know alot of women in my country have the same problem not just divorsed women have this tough life i think every women there. Family actually never understand thier doughters opinions especially in Arab or muslim countries (I am Arab and Muslim so im not saying that cuz i have them or any other reasons) I said for those who afraid from the Gods’ punishment, just do what u think u desirve in this life even if it is go against ur family opinions or other people, they wont be satisfied no matter what. God never ever like any woman to suffer like that. wack up women they lying on you.

@Ibrahim: That’s not always true. For example,in my situation, I know that it is not from Islam for the family to let the men live alone and the women with their families, again this is a cultural thing.

Another example is in Pakistan/India/Bangladesh, and places like these, it is normal for a bride’s family to pay the groom the Mahr, or that the Mahr goes to the Bride’s dad, when it clearly states in Islam that the husband is supposed to give his wife the Mahr, as a wedding gift. This is a cultural thing, not a religious thing.

What makes it seem as though the two go hand-in-hand is because people often use religion as an excuse to do things. They will hide behind a religious facade, when really they are acting either out of ignorance, or using things from their culture.

This story really touched me, mostly because I can see this as my future. Sometimes I regret being born a girl just because I don’t get to do anything. But right now, I have some advice on the religious aspect because you said “I’m scared and worried that they’ll do good on their promise to disown me, and I will get punished for it on the day of judgment.”

Sometimes it seems that in order to be a perfect Muslim, you have to sacrifice a lot of things in life. Nowadays, the world has changed so much, that everything is seen as sinful. However, I think that Allah is kind and doesn’t want us to suffer and hate our lives. In the end, all the hope we can have in life is to just do our best at being a good person. Everyone nowadays is the haram-police, and people do gossip, and at the extreme families will disown their children. Religion and people’s “image” do have a role in this, but I usually find that the key in these kind of issues is TRUST. If your parents or society does not trust you to uphold your morality while having your own life, it’s up to you to trust yourself. I can see from your story that your belief in Islam is pretty intact, and in the end, that’s what you need most.

@Ibrahim
But back in those days you think people would care about women? Nope they were busy making sure that they could nip the “female situation” in the butt. Can you imagine then a woman calling to the practice of one god? That would surely get her killed and give more of a reason to make sure those “filthy vagina’s” don’t continue this. It was more logical for a man to call religion.

Culture and religion are two different things, culture just uses religion as a justification. You think Half these stupid arabs would get their way if they followed religion? Psssht it would put them in their friggin place.

@Ibrahim
Don’t insult Islam. The fact that there is no female prophet is, quite oooooobviously, because no society would allow a female’s message to be heard (that means any society in the world, east, west, europe, asia, whatever). Islam outlawed female infanticide, gave women the right to divorce, inherit, study and do business (look at Khadijah, rah). In Islam, a woman has a right to any money she earns, plus the money her husband makes, but her husband is not allowed to touch her money. She also has the right to choose her husband. Try learning to read: “Women are the other halves of men” in Hadith, and Quran clearly states that men and women are equals. Europe and North America still don’t give women equal pay. Aisha (rah) is responsible for 90% of the hadith and the first moroccan university was headed by a woman in the golden age of Islam. Wali and hijab were instituted to protect women from rape. You make me sick when you try to twist religion for what culture does. Islam is perfect and beautiful, and it gives full equality and respect for women— just because your culture doesn’t apply what Islam says doesn’t make it religion’s fault. Culture fails to apply Islamic principles but that doesn’t mean religion is wrong. You are one of those sick people who twist everything. You’re disgusting. I feel sorry for this guest poster because she lives in a society which twists Islam, just like you do.

@Yazzo

“But back in those days you think people would care about women?”

No.. they wouldn’t. But isn’t that what religion is for? to set ground rules and grant everyone some equality?

You suggest that no one would’ve listened to women as prophets back then, but what was the possibility of them listening to a random man preaching about a God that couldn’t be seen or heard?

If ‘god’ really wanted it to happen, ‘he’ would’ve had a female prophet or something of that sort.

@Saffron

Ok, first of all, don’t come here and bash the way the West inequally pays it’s women when women in Saudi Arabia can’t even vote or drive. To quote your own religion, a hadith once said something along the lines of finding a 1000 vices of yourself before you find a single vice of another person.

Second of all, me saying that Islam had no female prophets is not insulting the religion. It’s pointing out a fact.

Third of all, we’re having a cultured respectful discussion over here, you don’t need to take out your insecurities about people who don’t believe in your religion by calling me disgusting. Because if you want to play that game, then really, you’re the disgusting one. You’re the disgusting one for not realizing that your religion gives males more power. To me, actions speak louder than words. And the actions of Islamic countries against women such as Saudi Arabia speak louder than the words a lot of Muslims preach.

@The Girl Who Wrote This
You’re right. And I’m not saying that arab culture completely 100% stems from Islam. All I’m saying is that usually, culture is derived through religious depictions of stories in holy books and such.

@Ibrahim: That’s funny, I always feel as though I’ve wasted my life, but my brothers and friends keep telling me the same thing: they have classmates who are much older than them and just because you’re getting older doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve lost your chance to get an education or to turn your life around.
And your story about when you joked about being agnostic to your mom and she started crying: the EXACT same thing happened to me last week. My mom and sister and I were discussing gay people, and I jokingly said “mom, what would you do if one of your children came up to you and said they were gay?” She stared at me for a good ten seconds and then started blasting off about how wrong it was of me to even THINK about asking something like that. I was just trying to see her perspective on it, but of course her reaction was totally expected. And then my dad went on about how “if someone called your mom a bad name, would you stand for it” to which I replied, “no” and then he says, “well then how can you like or even accept someone who’s intentionally going against our religion and spiting God that way”…it was stunning to me how he made such a connection, but that’s my family for you.
I just got to remember this: True, family is important and you should try your best to keep good ties with them, but if it get too much, that is why you have friends; they’re the family you choose. And even if all that falls through, you need to be strong enough to rely on yourself because in the end, that’s all you have.

@Fatema: That’s true. People will always have something to say, so you might as well ignore them and do what YOU think is best.

@ Leila: “However, I think that Allah is kind and doesn’t want us to suffer and hate our lives. In the end, all the hope we can have in life is to just do our best at being a good person.”
That’s the key right there.
Thanks for your input, it really helped me to see things more clearly.

Is she living in afghanistan or something, her parents are being completely unreasonable. What she’s going through isn’t worth it. She’s been the “obedient daughter” long enough, she deserves to be happy and live a normal life. I’m sure on the day of judgement, Allah would understand that her parents were being completely unreasonable. If they just let up a little, make things easier for her to live her life she wouldn’t have a problem. But they are so closed-minded and cares only about what other people think of them, rather than what they are doing to their daughter. She has to get out of there.

@ Desert Shark: Not Afghanistan, rather a more modernerized place close to Dubai. You’d think my parents would understand where I’m coming from. And its not that I haven’t tried talking to them about it, I have. I’ve come at it from every possible angle, but they still see it as me wanting to go against them and me wanting to ruin my life. That’s a joke. I haven’t had a normal life since 8th grade…I think I will have to just get up and leave. It is getting to be too much to handle.

@The Girl Who Wrote This
HAHA you want to know something funny? I’m actually bisexual. My parents don’t know. I’ve had the same conversation with them as you.

I just don’t understand how they could judge homosexuals like that when it wasn’t even my choice to be this.

Nonetheless, I’m proud of myself. I have A LOT of arabic friends (I live in Canada) and I’m open about my sexuality to all my friends and co-workers and stuff (except my family) and I’m accepted by everyone I know (including the parents of my Arab friends, surprisingly).

I just hate it when overly religious people judge gays/lesbians/bi’s badly. There is more to me than my sexuality. I’m a science major, about to become a pharmacist, I do human rights work with women and homosexuals, I also do art and have my art displayed in exhibitions, I’m doing well in school, I have amazing friends, a good healthy lifestyle, etc.

I hate it when people just don’t even recognize all these things about my life and just focus on my sexuality.

If anything, my sexuality has taught me nothing other than to be the strong hard working person I am today and I wouldn’t have it any other way! I really wish people like Arabs would come out of the little box they’re in and see the world in a new light with incorporating religion and politics in everything! Stop it with the haram-police bullshit… life’s short.

I’m probably going to get a few bashings from extremist Muslims about my sexuality, but all I have to say is that it’s who I am. I’m proud of it. I’m not doing you any harm, so keep to yourself

Sorry I went off on a little tangent here talking about other things haha. But yeah, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders please keep us updated with that happens! I feel for your story and I know that my sister will probably end up in the same position as you. And even me, with the whole bisexual thing, there’s a good chance I might be disowned… but if that’s what it comes down to, then too bad because I can’t change my sexuality. I have a good relationship with my parents, so I’m staying on the optimistic side (even though I know things will be anything BUT smooth when I come out to them in the future)

Reading this post brings back so many bad memories O_O.

O_O

-_-

@The Girl Who Wrote This
dont take this the wroung way but what i really cant understand is u say u r feeling really down n never go out much n u sleep alot …well yr parents (n i dont mean 2 say anything bad about them )but they must see this …see that yr not happy but yet its like they wont let u be happy or they want 2 hold on 2 u n keep u like this ? i am not a parent but i know it must be hard 2 let go of yr kids n let them go out on there own but this itself is a part of life …n a big important part of life i belive ! if yr a man or a woman u r free …right? or thats what i would like 2 belive …God 4 give if i say something wroung but this is how i see it … if yr parents really love u as they should they should let u go caz in the end they know u r happy n at least u can take a shot at life! if u want 2 make yr parents happy ,first u need 2 make yr self happy …look at some hadiths ..like never brake family ties …i never see anything saying that if u dont listin 2 yr parents that gives them 2 right 2 disown u ..a parent should never do this ..no matter what u do …anyways dont give up n ?????i dont know what else 2 say lol like mona said u r brave n i really hope thinks look up 4 u soon …..salams

To the girl that wrote this, I hope you can find hapiness one day.

n p.s mona i dont know whats going on here but i can never get my picture up on here ??? i know i am no prince charming but gezzz i diden think i look this bad hahhaaha ……..i am soooooooo jellous mais lol

Hi Charlie, go to gravatar.com, and sign up using the email address you use on here. It should send you a link to youre email, click on the link and follow the instructions. Its straightforeward. =)

Hi, I just finished to read your post and all the comments to it.
First things first, I need to say I’m not an Arab, neither a ‘muslima’ – I’m European and I’m a Christian.
But, I also need to say that, I’m interested in Arabic culture for a long time: I have many Arabic friends – both, in Europe and out of it, I read a lot about it, even partly it appears in my working life – I love a lot of points of view I meet in Arabic/Islamic culture, while comparing it to (let’s call it by these unfotunate names) ‘Western’. However, there are also many things I just can’t accept: and the unchanging-for-so-many-years- way of thinking of women is definatelly one of them
To be honest, as someone said above, non religion – at least, any of these which are lead from Abraham – had let a woman to speak for real. Another thing is in Far East’s biliefs, but Asian societies are not very different when it comes to female situation at all, even without reasons from religion.
Now, I’d have to confess that, I’m open-minded; what I’m going to say in a minute might be seen as a try of not to be, but that’s not my idea…

I’m wondering what to do by imaginating myself in your place.
And from the beginning, I understand your will of being in a good relationship with your family – here I’d have the same point, for sure.
But what’s wondering me is, talking not about your parents (because as you and the others above said, they’re from their generation, background, views on importance and cultural rules of religion, a.s.o.), but the other half of your family, the part which is about your age and about being in the former life you’d known – I mean your brothers.
You have mentioned, there is your sister with you at home, but also brothers out in the States. Don’t know how old they are, and I assume it can be that, they get some money from home too – so, it wouldn’t be easy for them to act against family decisions too. But, on the other hand, they’re the only ones who can really get your point of view, since they moved out to the same foreign country you did!
So, they’re about your age/generation, they know all the ups and downs, and dangers of living on your own (more or less), out of your home country.
I believe you did speak 1000s of times with your parents, and they’re stubborn with their eyes closed (= not able to overcome the danger of cultural punishment). But maybe it’s the closed-like way for now; maybe you should trully and openly talk to your bros, tell them the whole story and all your emotions, fears, and hopes + confess how deep black hole it is making in your mind and heart: being just indoors…
I know it needs a lot of courage – you have to be very open in front of them, and they might be not the best listeners – but that’s what I’d do. And even if it’d fail in the beginning, I’d make it a couple of times – it’d probably be easier to move their narrow-minded views (if there is any!) than your parents, who live in Arab culture only. Try to press on your brothers to be more empathy-full, to understand you and see the whole situation through your eyes… At least, it’s also within Muslim habit (as far as I know it), brothers should take a true care about sister’s good being – here, it includes your mental being.

By the way, I – even while not being Muslim girl – know what it feels like, to feel worse than a man, even if it’s not trully religious point, but a cultural one. As someone said, even in the EU, the differences between men and women are widely seen – and of course, it has some religious background, but not from the Bible itself, more from the institutionalism of Christian religion. (Here, blaiming just Islam wouldn’t be fair). But of course, we’ve had this big laic 18th century Enlightment time in our history of thoughts, and things are seen different than in still more religion-focused ‘Eastern’ countries.
I also feel the difference while speaking with Muslims who’re raised in more open countries or in ‘Western’ culture (but still stay good Muslims, despite all the dangerous to faith offers of the Western world), comparing them to Muslims from very religious and familiar with just Arab culture – it’s sad to say but, from my experiences, the first seem to be far more open & also responsible for their thoughts (even keeping Islam faith), the others – somehow blinded (for example, for the fact that not the whole world is Islam(ic), and that other people can be good/responsible/ethical/not wrong too) and naive (that it just should be the way the Islam is telling about: as the only religion in the whole world [>>> one word about this religious call: Even if, then we need to remember that all Abraham's religions say the same, and also - in fact, there's so many factors we have no influence on while being raised in one or other religion... - we all have to be tollerant and know how to live between facts, not between dreams]).
Also, I want to recommend some other way to you – since you shared you have problems with going out on your own, I thought about finding some sollutions online: there’s this site called http://www.globalvoicesonline.com – it’s all about local journalism & linking people talking/blogging from all over the world into one online-teritory; their aim is, to cultivate the freedom of thinking – for everybody. And among those bloggers, there are Muslim people, women too, who’re writing about female situations in their countries/cultures – maybe it would be senseful to interact with them/their posts somehow (at least, to cheer you up, but there’s a big dialog too; check on this one maybe: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/09/11/arab-women-minors-until-they-die/). There’s also many Muslim movements/organisations of former opressed/just open-minded enough women who help girls in your situations too – you can google it or I can post some www-s, if you like. You have to remember, there’s a lot of women who can help you to find the best solution, experienced in a similar way.
You’re young, and there’s nothing stupid/wondering about your parents (even brothers) wanting to keep you out of dangers – I’d like to ask you for not doing anything stupid: like leaving your family in anger and a feeling-down moment. Please, think it all up for 1000 times before you’ll decide to do anything radical. They’re crying while negleting their point of view, but that’s who they are, you can’t blame them for their good wills. But of course, I’d be the wisest thign for you, to point them out there are other ways of carring of you, more acceptable by you.
Just remember, you’re young, and quitting on your family right now might be not better than waiting just a little bit longer for a better solution.
But I agree with Ibrahim from above, you can’t/shouldn’t stuck like this to your 60s.
I’d still search for other, less harming than quitting on family (no matter how narrow-minded they are), ways – starting with what’s accessable online…
In the end I need to say, I really am proud of you as of my female sister, as my keeping-faith sister too: none of our religious-cultural habit is fair to women, unfortunatelly, and hundreds of years made male minds often blind to see, how beautiful female brains are, how ‘other halfs’, indeed.
[For those who forgot, or didn't realise it yet: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/eve_ensler_embrace_your_inner_girl.html ].
And once again, I ask yoo to give yourself the new opportunities, the new ways – I’m sure when you keep asking like it this post, you’ll find soulmates and helpin ideas from them!
Be brave & don’t be in rush. It’s about your life choice, you need time, and wiseful advices!
Be strong and good luck, sister!

Well ‘The one who wrote this’ is surely from SA. That’s a fact.

Listen; stop whining about religion, culture, norms etc… And get practical.

Find the right guy and settle down because when you’d be 45-50; nobody is going to marry you or be interested in you and you won’t have anybody besides you to support you financially and emotionally in your ups and downs. Get some good technical/skillful degree and try to become a working spouse and try to settle in somewhere where you can work and earn along with your next husband to be and raise your kids in the culture you ‘want’ them to be raised in. Otherwise they’d end up whining like you with agonist bastards like above. You’re lucky to be divorced in 2.5 yrs instead of 15 otherwise you’d have closed all your options.

Whatever has happened, it’s Past! No point in crying over spilt milk, just plan ahead now all by yourself! so you don’t have anybody to blame, i.e. parents, cultures & of course the most beautiful/practical religion of all times.

To all those obnoxious debaters’ who degrade Islam; that’s the real problem when you learn about religion from third-hand sources and imply the wrong interpretation. Don’t judge the religion from practices! Or cultures, norms and social ways of doing things, followers still do it their way!!. Who says Arab culture is 100% Islamic at all? It’s hardly 50% and that’s the deception point. People gauge quality of religion Islam by analyzing Arabs. They mostly are ignorant and do things in a way which ‘suits’ their illiterate behavioral norms.

This is a heart-breaking situation; and there are many similar stories going on around the world. -In my opinion-, the first step in solving your problem (which must be done, one way or another), is determining the most important things in life to you. If your spirituality tells you one thing, and you firmly believe in it, then doing that should make you happy. Also, if your family is putting you into a situation where your miserable or depressed, and they don’t even realize it (which happens, and there’s no need to be upset with them about it); maybe your parents don’t really know what is best for you in your life. (Parents don’t always know what’s truly best for their children, especially if you have differences in your spiritual beliefs.) I guess what I’m trying to say is that you should do what makes you happy, and what you feel is the right decision is for you; no matter what the costs/consequences will be. Believe me, this whole wide world works together, with it’s self. If you have good intentions, treat people kindly and with respect, try to make the right decisions that are best for the majority, and see things for what they really are, this world and the people in it will take care of you, and your life will be rich with happiness. Best of wishes to you, and I would love to know how your doing some time.

@Ibrahim

Your comments are so good, I think that advice could apply to women in any culture

@The Girl Who Wrote This

Divorce is hard enough anyway, but it sounds like you went from an unhappy marriage to a sort of prison

I don’t have any advice for your situation, but I agree with what others have said that you should pursue your own happiness. And, your brothers are totally right about the older college students! I’ve been taking classes just for fun the last couple years and I’m in my 40s. I’m not even close to the oldest student

@Ibrahim
I guess what you say makes sense. I come from a very secular family (my mother’s side) who were never religious, never prayed, fasted or wore hijab but they took their culture very seriously and lived by it, never neglecting it at any time. The Arab culture is closely interrelated to the Islamic faith, therefore, they were following (you can say etiquettes) of Islam correctly. They then, became religious, because most of my family (in this case married open-minded and semi-liberal religious guys and left the country) who did not enforce the Islamic faith on them, and they ended up been very religious later on (I’m Iraqi). Prophethood and this Islamic faith, never treated women as inferior, you look at Khadeeja (R.A) was an entrepreneur many people in the business (especially Muslims) look up to. I guess part of the Islamic faith is deeply rooted and stems from Bedouin culture which is in some ways pretty good but quite harsh and oppressive towards women.

I won’t pretend to understand any of the cultural differences between your upbringing and mine, but I do know what it is like to be a young woman. Of course you need to respect your elders, but now that you are an adult it would be nice if they too could respect your wishes.

Perhaps you can join a group who travels and helps people. Like missionary work within your religion. That way you’ll be able to meet people, travel and grow independently. Do you think your family would be more open to something like that?

@Saffron

Khadijah was a wealthy, independent buisiness woman BEFORE Islam really started.

I don’t have any advice. But i’m currently going through a simular situation. I’m recently divoreced from an E. engineer, we were together 3 years. Were both muslim. (He never told his parents we got married.) When he visited is homeland(Iraq)a couple of months ago, He got married to a cousin of his. He told me that his parents would never approve of me because i’m american. And that he had to get married with her. She is now here in the US with him. I’m so alone now and debating whether to leave my job and friends to move back home. I’m really depressed.I feel so worthless. I have even tried killing myself. I don’t know what to do.

(I’m sorry for writing this)

@ Sandee
Don’t feel sorry! I feel so ashamed for my sex’ actions. How can someone do something like that?

It seems to me unwise to leave the only things you have (friends, job) because then you would be much more lonely than you are now.

Despite of the fact that i’m from totally different culture and i shouldn’t judge any other cultures i must write something about this. I admire so much that you are so brave.For me it’s only ilussion that you have no choice- your story shows that you are SO BRAVE person and you always shoud remebmer of it. I believe that step by step your life will be different, much better for you. You really deserve for it.
I don’t know what you should do cause i don’t know your culture and so on but i will keep cross my fingers for you. Hope that you will be better!

@Yahud Kanjar
Since when did women need a man for stability? She can be perfectly independent and happy without a man. She’s young… she has work experience in the west along with friends, and she can go back there and re-start her life all over without a lot of difficulty. Please stop living in this ‘box’ of yours and realize that women don’t need a man for emotional and financial stability. They’re very capable of doing it on their own.

@Sarah
:up:

@mais
Oh look at you.. you’re the greatest psychologist of the century… you just read me like a book -_-

Since you’re so smart and analytical, what is this ‘gay agenda’ that I’m trying to promote? Because I’m truly confused. I only mentioned my sexuality in one post because the guest poster brought up her parents’ views on the topic and I wanted to share my experience. I don’t see how this has to do with any form of ‘agenda’ of mine.

The fact that you’re saying I’m only ‘nice’ to women because I’m gay is really disrespectful. Women’s rights is a human rights issue that I’m really passionate about and it has absolutely nothing to do with my sexuality, and it never will (I don’t even see how it could… since there really isn’t a connection between the two). Please take your bigotry and homophobia somewhere else–there’s no need for me to be subjected to such an attack from you.

Oh, and for further clarification, even if I HYPOTHETICALLY had some form of ‘gay agenda’ to push, I really wouldn’t be pushing it on here. God bless Canada and the freedoms and rights it gives to its people. Homosexuals have full rights here, including marriage, so I really don’t see the need for a ‘gay agenda’ of any kind.

My sister is an inspiration and she is one of the strongest people I have ever met or known. She always been a woman who is always will be independent. She went through a divorce and decided it is best not to talk to my parents, she wants to happy and I am the middle person.

I am not Arab so I don’t really understand it and that’s why love the internet to see life through someone else eyes. I do know about depression, I was recently put in the hospital for suicidal tendencies and put on loads of antidepressant meds. I have learn so much and I couldn’t imagine that I would ever go down that road.

What I do know, depression is an hungry demon and for me being a man has something to do with it. I held everything in, we men are trained as boys to always be strong but because of the chains of events it came down like a load of bricks. I kept all this a dark secret and when everyone found out what was going on they are said, “you should of came to me or said something.” It was great experience as I look back on it and I have put everyone in front of me. My therapist told me, “forget what everybody wants, damn them and now Adrian have to come first.”

@Sarah
You’re totally correct in mentioning that there a few anecdotes in the Quran that don’t portray women as inferiors. But you also have to realise that there are a lot of rules and regulations part of the religion that do seem to give men and women a bit of inequality when it comes to power. An example would be how men can marry up to 4 wives. While women can only marry one, and if they got with another man, well… let’s just say that it doesn’t end on a good note with a lot of Islamic cultures (especially the ones that do honour killings).

I am not trying to be a psychologist neither am I trying to be deflammatory or disrespectful towards gays. In my entire life I have never heard this from a straight Muslim man. Even my arab male friends and relatives that are all highly educated and are/have been exposed to Western culture however they still say even if a woman gets an education/career her primary role is to be a wife/mother e.t.c. I have Arab male friends that are educated and relatively liberal however they have not said this. Anyways I dont want to get into a debate on this issue, I should have kept my mouth shut. Mona can you delete that comment please,,thanks. O_O

It’s the same story for almost every girl in the Middle East. I would from any day walk away from my family had I ever been cornered in a shitty situation such as this. This dump needs an overhaul in society which is an impossible Task. Living here in the heart of the Middle East, and my country being the most modern and open on culture is seeing changes that you normally would not anywhere around in the rest of the Middle East. The old generation’s power is waning, the young are being more active, more busy then ever before and are starting to stand up for themselves. I’m finally seeing Mix-groups showing up, more and more in numbers every month. This was not the situation a year or two back. Things are changing slowly, but those of us who are alive and living in the crap that is the world today. I feel for you!

@ Yahud Kanjar

You say “Well ‘The one who wrote this’ is surely from SA. That’s a fact.
Listen; stop whining about religion, culture, norms etc… And get practical.”

No, you listen. Does it really matter where this girl is from? I think you totally missed the point here. For your information, she is not whining, she is simply exposing the ugly truth and if you have a problem with that, then it’s your problem, you don’t need to bash her and advise her to “settle down” with a nice guy as if it’s the only way for her to get a life. In case you haven’t noticed, she clearly states that she was homeschooled since grade 8 and was basically locked indoors until she got married. She than got a little bit of freedom but the marriage didn’t work out because she didn’t know the guy well enough and didn’t love him.
How is she supposed to find the right guy if she doesn’t have any freedom to go out and about in the first place? So you’re saying that marriage is the solution? That would just be repeating her first marriage. I think she needs to be on her own and live her own life and if it’s in her plans, to eventually find someone. I am amazed by your condescending tone because you try to make yourself come across as an authority here instead of being friendly and polite. Who said that if she doesn’t jump into another marriage, she will end up single at 45-50 and no one would want her? I don’t know in which world you live in, but in my world you certainly don’t “need” a man to support you financially or emotionally in your ups and downs like you say. She is brave and empowered and can certainly manage to do that herself.

You say : “Get some good technical/skillful degree and try to become a working spouse and try to settle in somewhere where you can work and earn along with your next husband to be and raise your kids in the culture you ‘want’ them to be raised in.”

Why the sarcasm? I take it you agree with her parent’s ways and she should just be the nice Muslim girl that she has to be and just shut up and endure it until a nice prince charming comes and saves her? Well, I’ve got news for you. Once upon a time, there was a girl who just remained patient and stuck with it. Then what seemed to be Prince Charming came along and she deemed it to be the perfect opportunity to get out. Once she did, she saw the Prince’s true colors and he actually turned into a pig. Or maybe he was all along. Does this sound familiar?

“Otherwise they’d end up whining like you with agonist bastards like above.”

The word is “agnostic”, learn to spell. And they are not bastards, they are just people who were pushed away from their religion because their parents hurt them using religion as an excuse. In such situations, it is quite common to reject religion as a way of rejecting this way of thinking. I’m not saying it’s right. All I’m saying is I understood where they’re coming from so don’t be so quick to judge. As a Muslim, you should speak to people with “Ihsan”.

“Find the right guy and settle down because when you’d be 45-50; nobody is going to marry you or be interested in you and you won’t have anybody besides you to support you financially and emotionally in your ups and downs. Get some good technical/skillful degree and try to become a working spouse and try to settle in somewhere where you can work and earn along with your next husband to be and raise your kids in the culture you ‘want’ them to be raised in. Otherwise they’d end up whining like you with agonist bastards like above. You’re lucky to be divorced in 2.5 yrs instead of 15 otherwise you’d have closed all your options.”
“Whatever has happened, it’s Past! No point in crying over spilt milk, just plan ahead now all by yourself! so you don’t have anybody to blame, i.e. parents, cultures & of course the most beautiful/practical religion of all times.”

She is not blaming her religion at all. Had you read all the other comments, you would have noticed that she actually defends it when people seem to mix it with culture.

“To all those obnoxious debaters’ who degrade Islam; that’s the real problem when you learn about religion from third-hand sources and imply the wrong interpretation. Don’t judge the religion from practices!”

And you think by calling them bastards you will help the cause? People do not learn about Islam in books. They learn about Islam from Muslims themselves. And I have to tell you, this “da’wa” technique of yours is probably not going to work.

@Ibrahim
At the end of the day, I do ponder once in a while, why polygamy is permitted in Islam and forbidden in the other monotheistic religions. Divorce is not permitted for Christians (according to Bibles in the Arab world) because the concept of life partnership is very significant. I’m not sure what to say about Judaism, perhaps it is the same. I do disagree about polygamy in some ways because it can be destructive and misused. The concept of promoting life partnerships is essential, however we all have a tolerance level before the bubble bursts. Suppose at the end of the end it comes down to the individual (his or herself). I know of many elderly people who survived negligence and alcoholism in order to paint a glamourous picture for other Arabs to see, but nowadays people don’t care, their tolerance level is much lower than the previous generation and in some cases they may divorce over a simple easy-to-fix reason.

Ibrahim, to me you seem like an intellectual who portrays a very deep understanding of these things. Tell me, does decline in morality or westernised culture in a global village lead Arabs to divorce more frequently in this generation, or do they (Arabs) no longer care or show they care what people (their age, parents, and Arabs) in general think? Has tolerance changed because of the sexual frustration we Arabs have, therefore leading us to show zero tolerance to people we marry eventually leading to divorce? I hope I’m making sense here. Thanks

Hello there, I think that you are in a difficult position. From your very first steps it appears that you made a decision – you want to be embraced by your family – your family will not embrace you unless you obey them. You say that they are important to you but perhaps what needs to be asked is ‘are you important to them?’ I think that you need to have your position and your feelings expressed to them and you can only really do this with someone acting to mediate for you. It needs a third party to do this so that neither you or your family say things that cannot be un-said.

You need to make a list of things that need to happen to make your life happier and acceptable. These need to be put to your family and an agreed plan drawn up.

No one can tell you how to live your life – you are too precious for that – really we live the life that we want to live. By this I mean we can alter the life that we lead if we really want to. Yes it takes courage but it is always within our power. We first have to realise what sort of life we want then – take a deep breath and grasp it. There is always a way no matter who we are, what religion we are, what country we live in. It is difficult – life is not always easy but if you are unhappy then look for ways – possibilities with which you can change it.

Good Luck!

@Sarah
I’m not a position to question or judge the polygamy rules in Islam. However, what I do question is the amount of power and the equality given to both genders regarding such polygamy rules. Why is it the man that can have 4 wives while the woman can’t have 4 husbands?

As for Arab divorce rates, I don’t know any statistics but it seems like you’ve done your research and that the divorce rate is on the rise. I personally think that it may be on the rise due to the fact that arab society (not culture) is moving in a SLIGHTLY and a very slow progressive manner in which women can actually speak up about any form of abuse nowadays or the unsatisfaction with their man (not all woman though). I think that in the older times, women were more likely to be forced to keep their mouth shut and suck it up for the sake of keeping the family name intact and avoiding all the talk from other ‘people’. The whole ‘sucking it up’ thing is with no doubt still happening, but at much lower rates, in my opinion. I am by no means an expert sociologist or anything like that, but that would be my theory for the rising divorce rates in Arab culture.

@The Girl Who Wrote This :
I think you are a very brave girl. Braver than you think. You already took a very hard decision to get a divorce and live with your parents. I’m sure you still have the strength to make another hard decision to live your life the way you want it. It seems that your parents are emotionally blackmailing you, knowing that you will always be the Obedient girl. But Always remember that Allah is the merciful and you won’t be punished for living your god-given life the way you want. Don’t waste any more time worrying what they will do. Life is too short. I really wish you all the best.

@Sandee:

I feel sorry for you. But believe me you are better off without him. He’s a liar and cheater, and I can assure you that his parents have nothing to do with anything, it’s all his decision (I’ve seen it before). He is the unworthy one not you. You will meet someone else who appreciates you. Be strong.